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NTFS / FAT

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:25 pm
by Flappz
Hi,
I was just wondering what the reasoning was for making ROS install only on the FAT system and not NTFS?

I always thought the NTFS was a better System and was just wondering.
Thanks
Phil

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:57 pm
by Z98
Because NTFS isn't openly documented, meaning writing a working driver is extremely difficult. As of right now, there is no open source driver that fully works. Even if there was one, it is more likely that it would be written for Linux/BSD, which would require the developers to port it over.

While there is apparently an NTFS driver in trunk, according to others on the board it isn't really being touched right now.

Re: NTFS / FAT

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:59 pm
by temarez
Flappz wrote:Hi,
I was just wondering what the reasoning was for making ROS install only on the FAT system and not NTFS?

I always thought the NTFS was a better System and was just wondering.
Thanks
Phil
Because it is hard to develop NTFS driver. Besides there are much tasks that are more critical. But NTFS support is surely planned in future

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:00 pm
by Flappz
NTFS in linux isnt the best either, You can read from NTFS but writing is another story.
But aparently XANDROS desktop 4.0 just came out and they claim to have 100% read Write to NTFS, I wonder how hard it is to port.
Phil

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:01 pm
by Flappz
NTFS in linux isnt the best either, You can read from NTFS but writing is another story.
But aparently XANDROS desktop 4.0 just came out and they claim to have 100% read Write to NTFS, I wonder how hard it is to port.
Phil

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:09 pm
by temarez
Flappz wrote:NTFS in linux isnt the best either, You can read from NTFS but writing is another story.
No there is already stable and safe decision of this problem (not captive). Look here.

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:13 pm
by Z98
Considering the problems with the current cache code, I'd say very hard. Until that's fixed, I would be surprised if any developer would be enthusiastic in trying to port a driver.

And any group claiming 100% read/write, I'd have to see proof. There is a driver floating aroud out there that seems to achieve it, but that still doesn't mean it's usable for ReactOS.

Don't get me wrong, I want NTFS support quite badly. Got into a fight with another guy on the forum regarding it. However, at the moment I'm willing to wait.

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:26 pm
by Flappz
Lets make it FatX compatible also, Linux has a FatX driver so you can do work on your XboX.
Its basically Fat32, it has all the same limitations.
I honestly dont know what the difference is.

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:37 pm
by jorl17
Excuse-me but, did you read the FAQ?
Maybre this is allready clarified, but read the FAQ, in the wiki

http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ
Why no NTFS (Microsoft Windows®) support for ReactOS?

Implementing NTFS support is very difficult. No one in the open source world has managed to do it yet. (Not completely, at least. Even Linux has only read support.)

Reasons for the same,

* NTFS is very complex.
* It is not documented. This makes it even harder to implement, and so there is no definitive way of ensuring compatibility with Windows® in unusual circumstances nor any way of ensuring compatibility with future versions of Windows®.

Extensive discussions can be found at the ReactOS forum for further details.

NTFS may be implemented in further stages of development of ReactOS. So wait patiently.
As you can see, that is the answer...

Maybe later dude...maybe later...

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:12 pm
by Trasher
Just to add to the discussion, Haiku has anounced ntfs read/write support for their beos clone. http://haikunews.org/1241

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:29 pm
by GreyGhost
The point is (imo)....
That at the moment no open source NTFS driver is stable enough .... and theres no point of riting a new one for ROS ( the developers alrwady have a big enough task for them.....)ROS needs to wait till the drivers for NTFS get stable enough ..... But again Its my "Opinion:"

And with time (afaik soon.... ) ext2 or ext3 will be supported in ROS ...... but a lot of work is still to be done for it afaik .... but it will come.....

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:43 pm
by Andrewm1986
Plus reactos will support the windows ntfs driver which you can use if you have a version of windows.

I know this negates the whole point in reactos but its a good stop gap as until reactos is usable most people will also have a copy of a windows

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:30 am
by oiaohm
Stop gap is not the issue here.

There is a lot of work porting a driver from Fuse or Linux kernel.

Not something to do on a wim.

Also the reason why stop gap is not a issue. Reason using the NTFS driver from windows in Reactos is not legal everywhere. This is the reason why captivefs has a warning notice with it. Also Reactos is so that people don't need Windows any more. When the current ntfs-3g driver jams only way to fix it is delete files(not really fixing it) or use Windows. Defeating the objectives of Reactos.

You should not find NTFS on removable media anyhow. Anyone doing that is only asking for trouble.

Ie only 2 reasons for need NTFS.

User has windows and need to interface with it. Ie has the NTFS driver already. Next few versions MS NTFS driver will start working under Reactos so this already has a stop gap use the Microsoft Driver.

To use NTFS secuirty features and enhanced filesystem. It is not the only filesystem that can be used to do this either.

The secound reason requires it to work completely or at least not have a write limit. Also the secound is prefered not to require MS NTFS to meet the objectives.

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:14 pm
by Ferret-Simpson
To be honest, I've just always flat out hated NTFS.
Horrifically incompatible with any other OS, and FAT32 VS NTFS I've had more corruptions on the Journaling system.

I'm not saying that it's not a necessary evil, but I certainly don't think it hould be used as a root partition driver for ReactOS. Open Source filesystems currently available are more reliable, easier to port, better supported and will integrate themselves far happier with existing Operating Systems. An eventual NTFS driver to access your Windows partitions is a perfectly reasonable thing to want, but why cripple ReactOS by forcing it to replicate Windows in every department, when there is no reason to!?

For those who somehow, because of strange tendencies and fetishisms :P require access to their user level files from both a Microsoft proprietary OS and ReactOS. . Put them on FAT. It will allow you to access your file from Both OS's, and won't cripple either system. Better yet, put them on a separate mirrored RAID Hard Disk system. Extra security. And put it buried 20 miles underground. In a lead box. In a secure facility with armed guards.

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:08 am
by oiaohm
There has to be another filesystem in time other than fat.

Reason some applications require NTFS secuirty permissions Fat cannot do this. Some programs even go as far not to operate if fat is anything other than removable.

Problem no Open Source filesystems have NTFS secuirty compatible Windows Drivers.

Basicly a hole that has to be filled by something. Fat is not suitable long term. It has to be replaced.

Also NTFS filesystem permissions can be used to reduce virus spread options. Microsoft does not use it verry effectively but we can.