NTFS. No really.

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oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:57 am

NTFS-3G Version 1.0 still has the bug that it can loss means to write new files to disk in a instant.

Not OS install grade yet still missing that little bit of critical information how to write to full space of partition without problems.

We need a secure file system that a OS can be installed on more than NTFS at moment. So Ext2... or something like it might turn up functional before NTFS.

noccy
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Post by noccy » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:10 pm

oiaohm wrote:We need a secure file system that a OS can be installed on more than NTFS at moment. So Ext2... or something like it might turn up functional before NTFS.
We heard you the first time :) hehe. I guess we can live with just FAT support until NTFS support is fully implemented. After that, just about any file system could be implemented... BFS, ReiserFS, ext2, but implementing another fs in the mean time is not worth it :) Focus on the things that need fixing :D

Radhad
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Post by Radhad » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:37 pm

I think for our Linux-Users it is also interesting for using ext2. ext2 is well documented so I do not see any negative point why it should not be implemented...

preston
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Post by preston » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:19 pm

come on guys! you are repeating the same things over and over.. ntfs! no I want ext2, reactos is alpha stage, still want ext2, ntfs is better, ext3, alpha stage...

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:29 am

Thinking my file systems under linux run on ext3 and ext4. There is not one single ext2 partition. If a ext2 driver writes to a ext3 I have to redo the journal entry's on the file system. Say by by to 15 min's And ext2 cannot read ext4. Note not even ext3 can read ext4. Ext4 supports larger file systems lot larger reason why ext2 and ext3 cannot read it.

The Goal needs to be moved to ext4 at some point. That will make the Linux users happy. ext4 driver reads and writes correctly to ext2 ext3 and ext4.

ZFS would make solaris users happy. A cool file system full size build from todays hard drives the heat of the drives would be enough to boil all the water in the world oceans. Don't want to think about power bill.

noccy there is not reason to stay with fat since ntfs is not documented enough yet. There is other things to work on.

I will live with ext2 under reactos only to provide a file system that can do ntfs style secuirty and the like. Not to integrate with linux.

Fragmentation. Fat32 is the fastest of all file systems I know.
NTFS is slower. Ext2,Ext3,Ext4 is like a lot slower than NTFS on fragmentation and normally only happens if the file system is 90 percent full. NTFS starts fragmenting at about 30 percent full. ZFS what fragmentation. Have not found a single thing that can cause ZFS to fragment.

Nothing in the NTFS features list cannot be done on Ext4 or ZFS. Samba 4 does it. Just the OS need some of those features for security one way or the other.

noccy Lot of business have all read made there selection. Its linux desktops. The clock is ticking everyone. Reactos will either make it in time to get market or not. Microsoft has shot self in foot. Change in business desktop using in 12 months. it was like 1 or 2 percent Apple and Linux to 98 windows. Its now about 1 percent Apple 10 percent Linux 89 percent windows. It could be less than a few years to 50/50 or worse.

GreyGhost
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Post by GreyGhost » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:14 am

What follows now is just my opinion so no need to flame me for that ...
ok ext 2 (and ext 3 follows as it is nothing different from 2) is understandable to implement as it is open source and *many* documented drivers exist for Windows.. but NTFS??
If u look at present state of ROS ..err.. hopeful u know that the trunk is broken for most of the time ... 0.3.1 branch has a major blocker breakage that needs to be fixed before anything goes ahead.. not even ext2 can come before the cc rewrite.. and u need FUSE to use NTFS-3g ...
Do u really think its the correct time to go around porting the fuse implementation and the driver (user mode anyways .. ) or the whole driver natively to ROS ???
Wouldn't it be better to let ROS be stable enough first??? and till then stick with something more like ext* ?
again its just my opinion ...
Regards GreyGhost

Z98
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Post by Z98 » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:41 am

Someone please lock this damn thread.....................

NTFS is down the line. The devs are aware of the options out there. They have no intention to work on an NTFS driver for the time being, as it's something they'll get around to down the line. Telling them what and when they should work on something isn't going to get you anywhere.

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:15 am

I think one of the past NTFS thread did get locked.

All that happened was a new one appear and all the tech stuff will have to be said all over again. If lock this thread please create a single message stickly locked at top.

Called: NTFS and Other file systems why Reactos is not working on them at moment.

In the hope that this never spawns again. Number two that a researcher somewhere find how to do that one thing in ntfs-3g that does not work. I am willing to keep a eye on ntfs-3g and provide a status notice to jaix if the bug gets fixed.

Reactomatic
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Post by Reactomatic » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:36 pm

I joined just so I could get into this debate. This is my first post here.

I strongly believe that ReactOS needs both NTFS and ext4/3.

Why NTFS? ReactOS is a Windows-like clone. Of course this will attract Windows users with files on NTFS and who use NTFS. No NTFS in ReactOS = HUGE downer for migrating Windows users.


Why ext4/3? First off, let me say ReactOS should give as much support to Linux as reasonable. A problem with Windows is it got too UN-Unix like and too Unix-UNfriendly. ReactOS has the chance to correct this issue, by creating a friendlier environment for Linux command line utilities, files, and maybe even some applications.

Another point is that if ReactOS would support only one than it should be NTFS, as by the time ReactOS is ready to use NTFS, there should be a number of Linux distros that have the driver for NTFS and can write files to NTFS.

No matter how people feel about it, ReactOS will be in the middle of the Windows and Linux worlds. Why not make ReactOS and future ReactOS users comfortable between both?

Z98
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Post by Z98 » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:28 pm

*mutters to self*

The reason ROS was created was because the devs liked the Windows NT environment. Not because they wanted to make Windows more like unix/linux. The majority of applications that people care about have already been ported to Windows, thus they will eventually also work on ROS. Those that haven't, well, the ROS devs do not see their job as to port and maintain things. They focus just on the OS and its utilities and libraries.

I'm going to make this statement in the hope that it kills off further NTFS discussion for at least a month. Nothing anyone says will change the plan the ROS devs currently have for NTFS. Short of someone coming forward with an open source NTFS driver that was created through clean room reverse engineering, the current roadmap will stay in place and no major NTFS work will be done until much later. So let this topic freaking die! We've had flame wars over this thing and I do not care to see that happen again. That's why the other NTFS thread was locked. Don't make the same mistake.

Reactomatic
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Post by Reactomatic » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:59 pm

Don't get me wrong, ReactOS is a great project, I'm just trying to understand how ReactOS is going to go BETA (though this may be years away) before any type of NTFS support? The issue is just going to keep coming up the more developed ReactOS gets.

I think NTFS support would be great in ReactOS even now. Even if the support was in the form of a work around or using one's legally owned Windows driver.

ReactOS LiveCD would be great to use it in a BartPE (Google, if you don't know about BartPE) bootable CD type of way where you can access NTFS partitions and run various Window programs. Or, what about in a forensic type of way like the Helix Forensic LiveCD (Google, if you don't know), which also has NTFS support.

I suppose there is so much discussion about it, because people may want to see support for it. Even if all the NTFS threads were locked, it would not take away user desire to see NTFS supported in a great project like ReactOS.

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:09 am

Desire does not go away. Bad news is its not legal to use the Microsoft NTFS driver with Reactos in all countries.

BartPE is a legal question mark. Some places its legal other places its not.

All this has been mentioned in previous threads. Reason I asked for a sticky with the compacted version of all the important facts.

Z98
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Post by Z98 » Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:43 am

There's also the fact that besides providing some possible pointers, all of the current open source drivers for NTFS are absolutely useless for ROS because their structure is completely different from an NT file system driver.

.aart3k
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Post by .aart3k » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:39 am

its getting pathetic

there's going to be both ntfs and ext3 in ros, it's open source project and afaik there have to the place improvements in kernel to make some drivers working, also ifs.

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:19 am

Please put ext4 on list. Reason this year more distros ext3 will be removed as default and replaced with ext4.

Might be better to say ext* What ever the latest ext file system is reactos will support in time. That is a developer selection. ext2 and ext3 are being killed off in the Linux world. Ext3 file system to install on is still better than ntfs that fails to allow writing any more when X many new files have been created.

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