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Ok, great, there are so many lists that I'm just confused now. Let's combine them all and make a master list and then vote on one program per catagory to be listed as the default, and make every number two voted app/game in the catagory "on the cd" but not installed by default. Sound good? I'll start by putting up a vote section for web browsers, and for an FPS game.
Now whatever we pick should be free as in beer at the least, and I think we should LEAN towards truly FOSS software everywhere possible, as that is a significant part of the point of ReactOS in general.
As for not putting a package like this together at all: That's just delusional. Somebody's going to do it, I think we should make the whole thing FOSS style with votes online, etc.. I agree we should avoid "distros" because that also bothers me about the lack of success of Linux based on their inability to put all the best stuff under one roof. With that in mind, let's really be open to suggestions and ideas and apps that really are "the best", and then let's just pick one of each and roll. If this "distro" of reactos is good enough, hopefully most people will avoid making other ones, and help us focus on improving ours. That's the whole idea behind FOSS anyway, right?!?
rhY
PS I don't really feel we need a vote necessarily on certain apps/games that seem clear everyone and anyone would want as the default. I mean, is it really an issue whether Firefox is the default over any other browser?
I'm going to start a wiki with just the top two choices for each catagory. Feel free to write-in a third option for any of them, and that will lead to votes.
PPS Yeah, obviously we're not going to include software that doesn't work well with ReactOS. However at this point I think we should just aim for the best Windows apps/games that are FOSS, or at least free to redistribute in an ISO, and then we can edit the list down later of things that don't work in reactOS, or by then hopefully reactOS will run the top two choices in each catagory fairly well.
PPS I started editing http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/R ... plications
since it was the last one mentioned and describes exactly what the goal here is of this topic, no? Please feel free to add catagories and topics, as I am no expert in most of those catagories. Other than graphics, games, and some Internet usage, I'm out of my element. Try not to delete any clear frontrunners like Firefox or the Gimp. Remember, also that we want two options for each catagory and program, because the "first" choice may not even work properly on the initial release of ReactOS Loaded Edition, or whatever we call this project, and we may have to go with the second choice, or even without in some areas initially.
Now whatever we pick should be free as in beer at the least, and I think we should LEAN towards truly FOSS software everywhere possible, as that is a significant part of the point of ReactOS in general.
As for not putting a package like this together at all: That's just delusional. Somebody's going to do it, I think we should make the whole thing FOSS style with votes online, etc.. I agree we should avoid "distros" because that also bothers me about the lack of success of Linux based on their inability to put all the best stuff under one roof. With that in mind, let's really be open to suggestions and ideas and apps that really are "the best", and then let's just pick one of each and roll. If this "distro" of reactos is good enough, hopefully most people will avoid making other ones, and help us focus on improving ours. That's the whole idea behind FOSS anyway, right?!?
rhY
PS I don't really feel we need a vote necessarily on certain apps/games that seem clear everyone and anyone would want as the default. I mean, is it really an issue whether Firefox is the default over any other browser?
I'm going to start a wiki with just the top two choices for each catagory. Feel free to write-in a third option for any of them, and that will lead to votes.
PPS Yeah, obviously we're not going to include software that doesn't work well with ReactOS. However at this point I think we should just aim for the best Windows apps/games that are FOSS, or at least free to redistribute in an ISO, and then we can edit the list down later of things that don't work in reactOS, or by then hopefully reactOS will run the top two choices in each catagory fairly well.
PPS I started editing http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/R ... plications
since it was the last one mentioned and describes exactly what the goal here is of this topic, no? Please feel free to add catagories and topics, as I am no expert in most of those catagories. Other than graphics, games, and some Internet usage, I'm out of my element. Try not to delete any clear frontrunners like Firefox or the Gimp. Remember, also that we want two options for each catagory and program, because the "first" choice may not even work properly on the initial release of ReactOS Loaded Edition, or whatever we call this project, and we may have to go with the second choice, or even without in some areas initially.
Not to rain on anyone's parade...
The topic of a ReactOS distribution comes up every once in a while, and the developers have generally agreed that we will not ship third party apps with the standard ReactOS build. Period.
WD
WD
crhylove,
There already is a unified compatibility list, It's called the Support Database, and it is found at http://www.reactos.org/support.
There already is a unified compatibility list, It's called the Support Database, and it is found at http://www.reactos.org/support.
WD, well then it looks like whoever puts together the "distribution" will have to build it all by hand, using the latest reactOS release. That's FOSS. Just because you guys aren't going to do it, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen.
Now what would be a good name for a reactOS distribution?
Coviti, yes, I've read that over several times. Thank you, but that's not exactly what I'm talking about. It's a necessary resource in order to put together what I'm talking about, though, to be sure.
rhY
Now what would be a good name for a reactOS distribution?
Coviti, yes, I've read that over several times. Thank you, but that's not exactly what I'm talking about. It's a necessary resource in order to put together what I'm talking about, though, to be sure.
rhY
You don't think for the 95% of people out there who use computers and don't even understand the concept of FOSS etc. we should have an install CD that installs reactos and the 15 most commonly used FOSS apps? I think having a version of reactos with:
Firefox
Thunderbird
Gaim
Gimp
Notepad2
OpenOffice
MediaPlayerClassic
NVU
Shareaza
Inkscape
Zsnes
and a couple of good simple games (chess and hearts) is a REAL good idea. Now a package manager is a good idea also, but having something that works for 98% of what people need right out of the box is going to make reactos a lot more attractive for a lot larger of an audience. You have to remember that grandma doesn't know what the hell a packagemanager is, or how it works. She still thinks Internet Explorer IS the internet. Here's a combination of L_X's theme, a wallpaper I'm donating to ReactOS (if anyone wants it!), and an example of how the desktop should originally show up for John Q Public, plus or minus a couple of Icons:
http://www.leperkhanz.com/forum/gallery ... g.jpg.html
Also, it'd be nice to alter L_X's theme just a little to match the background, unless of course somebody else submits a better background ahead of time, in which case we should still modify it to match the wallpaper.
rhY
Firefox
Thunderbird
Gaim
Gimp
Notepad2
OpenOffice
MediaPlayerClassic
NVU
Shareaza
Inkscape
Zsnes
and a couple of good simple games (chess and hearts) is a REAL good idea. Now a package manager is a good idea also, but having something that works for 98% of what people need right out of the box is going to make reactos a lot more attractive for a lot larger of an audience. You have to remember that grandma doesn't know what the hell a packagemanager is, or how it works. She still thinks Internet Explorer IS the internet. Here's a combination of L_X's theme, a wallpaper I'm donating to ReactOS (if anyone wants it!), and an example of how the desktop should originally show up for John Q Public, plus or minus a couple of Icons:
http://www.leperkhanz.com/forum/gallery ... g.jpg.html
Also, it'd be nice to alter L_X's theme just a little to match the background, unless of course somebody else submits a better background ahead of time, in which case we should still modify it to match the wallpaper.
rhY
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I agree with not shipping applications with reactos, it is a major pain with windows ... I NEVER use WMP, or Paint, or Word Pad, etc etc
I think if the package manager was advanced to a level where it was automated then this would perform a simalar task.
After install, maybe have a link at the top of the start menu to "Install Commonly Used Programs"
Which would download an XML file for an inbuilt package manager to read.
Also, if automation on install was possible the install CD could perform automatic installation from packages in a local directory (eg all files in the directory \Packages) or using an options file, to download of the net, after network drivers and internet connection has been established.
This means that the main React OS would not be bloated, but also allows people easy access to the most commonly used programs. Also giving others the ability to easily ship react os to their friends and family, with software preinstalled after react os.
Just my 2p
I think if the package manager was advanced to a level where it was automated then this would perform a simalar task.
After install, maybe have a link at the top of the start menu to "Install Commonly Used Programs"
Which would download an XML file for an inbuilt package manager to read.
Also, if automation on install was possible the install CD could perform automatic installation from packages in a local directory (eg all files in the directory \Packages) or using an options file, to download of the net, after network drivers and internet connection has been established.
This means that the main React OS would not be bloated, but also allows people easy access to the most commonly used programs. Also giving others the ability to easily ship react os to their friends and family, with software preinstalled after react os.
Just my 2p
I agree with you all the way. However, I would just have it default to Normal Install, and then have Advanced Install or something. Normal Install should still do a full OS repleat with browser, graphics editor, pdf viewer, media player, open office, etc. In which case there are 3 pretty serious apps missing in the "windows" FOSS world. Namely, a winamp replacement, a nero replacement, and a VOIP. I know some exist, but I don't know which ones are good, or at least none of them have struck me as a "corporate killer" which is exactly how I view firefox, ghostwrite, gimp and others.
rhY
Oh yeah, at least conceptually at this point, I also view reactos that way. Any FOSS OS that I can play san andreas under is probably going to win.
rhY
Oh yeah, at least conceptually at this point, I also view reactos that way. Any FOSS OS that I can play san andreas under is probably going to win.
Well, I think distros are especially for Window users always a pain. At least I am still not able to decide between all those different Linux and many others I know, too? So lots of 95% people.
Furthermore it is quiet difficult to match the app preferences of people:
In the end the only person who knows best what he wants is the enduser! Is there really need of such a small distro? Shouldn`t be there then a distro with videolan instead of mediaplayer classic? And then you have really fast a very big distro.
I could imagine that this is one reason why up to now no one of us has made a distro.
But if you or a small group possess the skills to do a distro, to buy the needed webspace and traffic and of course to fullfill the gpl, then you can - of course - work on it.
So hopefully (your) future development will be interesting!
Furthermore it is quiet difficult to match the app preferences of people:
- I wouldn`t like to see a p2p app (Shareaza) or a SNES Emulator (Zsnes) which are both probably in most cases not used in a legal way. By the way why not Amiga or Atari or C64 or ...
- Maybe I am satisfied with Skype or Yahoo messenger and don`t want to change...
- Or think of the videolan vs. mediaplayer classic (MPC) discussion in our forum. (http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic. ... t=videolan
By the way I could imagine some reasons why MPC is too difficult for 95% of people.
- And if those 95% of people wouldn't be able too use the package manager or to install things the good old way, then there is one big problem in the MS world: You have to install MS Word etc. by yourself!
In the end the only person who knows best what he wants is the enduser! Is there really need of such a small distro? Shouldn`t be there then a distro with videolan instead of mediaplayer classic? And then you have really fast a very big distro.
I could imagine that this is one reason why up to now no one of us has made a distro.
But if you or a small group possess the skills to do a distro, to buy the needed webspace and traffic and of course to fullfill the gpl, then you can - of course - work on it.
So hopefully (your) future development will be interesting!
I like and use both: MPC as well as VLan. So we don't have to start a discussion as I didn't want to say that Vlan would be easier. But it was easy to misunderstand. Sorry.crhylove wrote:How is MPC too hard to use? VLC seems much more complicated. I don't get it.
rhY
Nut now to your question: I know people who thought that they would just have to enable Quicktime files and Real Media file in the options of MPC and that they then could use .mov or .ram. In fact you have to install the original players or the alternative packs.
I also know enough people who don't like to go into the options of a program or doesn't like to change their old well known programs to newer and maybe better ones (Shareware ACDsee to Freeware XNview or Opensource IrfanView etc.).
That's why it is in my opinion very difficult to get a pretty suitable distro for "95% of people out there who use computers and don't even understand the concept of FOSS". Furthermore I can't believe that there are so many people outside that still don't know Opensource and those who doesn't, probably get pissed off by a buggy alpha Opensource Operating System like ReactOS.
Installing codecs IS something that should be automated for the kiddies. I'm certainly not suggesting that we just throw MPC on there cold turkey with no codecs!!!
AFAIK you can freely redistribute quicktime alternative and real alternative, and if we could do that as transparently as possible, I don't really see the problem.
Hell that's the FIRST thing (well, one of them) I do when I reformat somebody's machine.
rhY
AFAIK you can freely redistribute quicktime alternative and real alternative, and if we could do that as transparently as possible, I don't really see the problem.
Hell that's the FIRST thing (well, one of them) I do when I reformat somebody's machine.
rhY
People are not going to want to download OpenOffice, Thunderbird, Firefox, FileZilla on every computer, esp in a school/company/office. Then on server groups there is no way they want to download Apache, Mysql, PHP etc for every machine. It cost money, bandwidth (and your stopping other things from occurring on the network), time and people to install it with the package manager. It will just make a stronger reason for distros to appear.ScoTTie wrote:The package manager will make distro's of ReactOS mostly obsolete.
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VLC comes with most the codecs inbuilt. So it would be a better options to suggest for, as you put it, "kiddies"crhylove wrote:Installing codecs IS something that should be automated for the kiddies. I'm certainly not suggesting that we just throw MPC on there cold turkey with no codecs!!!
AFAIK you can freely redistribute quicktime alternative and real alternative, and if we could do that as transparently as possible, I don't really see the problem.
Hell that's the FIRST thing (well, one of them) I do when I reformat somebody's machine.
rhY
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