Two decades later...what's the point?

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MadWolf
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by MadWolf »

ReactOS is targeting NT version 5.2 Microsoft Windows Server 2003 and not Microsoft Windows 2000 (NT Version 5.0)
viewtopic.php?t=16981 EmuandCo NT 5.2 is the current aim
Then when you ask google "how to remove red eyes from photo" any video about gimp on Linux is buried under 9999 popular "photoshop
you need to add gimp to the end of the search term "how to remove red eyes from photo gimp" first video result "Red-Eye Removal with Gimp (Freeware)"
But the other day my son's school teacher asked for a work to be delivered in PowerPoint format
why did you not save it as a PowerPoint file?
But the other day my son's school teacher asked for a work to be delivered in PowerPoint format (1st of all, F*** you teacher for not asking a PDF).
She had to open LibreOffice Impress she complained about 3 hours for not knowing where stuff was then she complained about not being able to search online for videos teaching. Then, when the work was complete, I had to tell her that LibreOffice saves stuff in .odt and that she needed to convert into one of 8 possible formats supported by Microsoft PowerPoint.
She said why are we using this crappy software again? On the other one I just press "save" and send an email with it.
I tried to explain the best why based on economic factors and some moral ones.
But how about the 95% of the house holds that have no one with my knowledge? How will they acquire and use LibreOffice?
I have had teachers and lecturers like this but I saved my work using MS file formats if you use the correct search terms finding tutorials you can find whatever you are looking
8 possible formats supported by Microsoft PowerPoint.
but only 1 recommended assuming the other user is using an updated version of office the latest version of ms file format that LibreOffice can save

Thanatophobia
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Thanatophobia »

jcordeiro wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:52 am
The world has changed.
In the old times (2000) the fight was against MS closed standards and intentional standard change.
Back in that day ppl would not use OpenOffice because the files would be different when opened with MS office.
Linux had 0 windows applications and 0 Windows games.
Wine failed to open most of windows programs and virtualization was not an option.
Back then, we thought that if we could get windows programs and games to run on Linux, MS would lose the battle.
Boy we were wrong.
Yeah, pretty much. Given that most people who have PCs at home use Windows given that it already comes pre-installed by the OEM so they don't have to freak out that their computers don't work because there's nothing there to run it out of the box and having to go out to buy a retail copy or downloading a free OS online, and have more variety/competition and costs less than Macs. And also most schools use Windows computers for their students to use (and also sometimes Macs and more recently Chromebooks since they're cheaper).
jcordeiro wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:52 am
Linux and ReactOs and all free software have currently the same issue. Not threading media about it.
It does not matter how good those are if PPL can't find videos online (on the top 5 of a search) on how to do stuff no one will use them.

Wanna jumpstart this project to the sky?
Step 1: get it working 98%
Step 2: get YouTubers making videos about it.
Step 3: get social network VIPs threading about those videos.

It's a sad world, but it's the real world.
Well, now you got people like DistroTube, Michael MJD, Switched to Linux, Brian Lunduke and Windows On Windows talking about ReactOS. Most people who follow Linux/open-source communities or even some MS Windows enthusiasts (specifically those more oriented in the operating system's history in terms of the software and its different versions and development) probably have at least heard of ROS. It's even listed on DistroWatch.

But yeah, desktop Linux and FLOSS software in general really isn't something that is mainstream.

Thanatophobia
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Thanatophobia »

jcordeiro wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:33 pm
It's 10000 times nicer than it was in 2000.
But ppl now are lazy..
They want everything to be feed to them.
They want to ask "siri, i don't care about privacy, in fact, use my porn info to get more oriented porn adds".
They want to do 1 click to have food at the door.
They want to have friends by showing their fake pictures.
They want to have glory and self accomplishment just by the amount of likes their post had.

Today the most important thing for any product is popularity. Not quality or price.
And you get popularity by feeding the gods of laziness, the YouTubers, lazy friendly apps
True. Most people want something that "just works". They are not really that much tech savvy in knowing how things works and how to disable or troubleshoot certain things, etc.

verserk
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by verserk »

binarymaster wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:32 pm
dark wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:44 pm
After careful analysis, a stable ReactOS would gain more market share than desktop Linux ever will.
While it's unlikely to happen soon, every minor ReactOS release makes linux fanboys (kernel) panic. :lol:
??? Open source is always good, nobody thinks that.
ReactOS: HP pavilion dv6500.

wildschwein
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by wildschwein »

Give Reactos at most another decade...and it will "mess up" the world.

Because a lot of users and even states like Iran, China, Russia e.g. will slowly integrate it in their environment. Not from today to tomorrow, but they will go the "reactos way". So no more "secret backdoors" in Windows, and I think there a lot...very top secret and only to be used from CIA and others in an "emergency"...(What is today possible, will be done.)

Untill today Reactos is "only academic" and not for daily use, but some day "the steady ink drops turns the water into color"...

Walt
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Walt »

wildschwein wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 7:21 pm
Give Reactos at most another decade...and it will "mess up" the world.

Because a lot of users and even states like Iran, China, Russia e.g. will slowly integrate it in their environment. Not from today to tomorrow, but they will go the "reactos way". So no more "secret backdoors" in Windows, and I think there a lot...very top secret and only to be used from CIA and others in an "emergency"...(What is today possible, will be done.)
It's not just national security-type issues, either. If you want a full library of user-type programs today you are stuck with Windows. But Windows brings Microsoft and Microsoft doesn't care about YOUR programs -- only those with enough business use to delay adoption of new Win versions: You can count on losing most of yours as time goes on. For Microsoft software maybe there'll be new versions for the new versions of Windows, maybe they'll work for you, and maybe the whole works will run on your existing hardware, but over time ... nope. Microsoft will force you to march to their drum because that's where the money is for them and the flotilla of hardware makers who ship with Windows.

If what you are doing and using works for you -- applications, OS version, computer -- count on it being steadily destroyed EXCEPT for what you have sitting on your desk ... for as long as you can keep the old computer working by buying parts, etc. To cope with new functional requirements you'll have to buy a new computer, run a new OS on it, because NOBODY is going to adapt your old OS and/or computer to run that new function.

ReactOS could one day offer an option. A stabilized functional interface that wouldn't dump old capabilities just to force you to buy new and start over. And if it did become that option, it would indeed be popular. I ran ROS daily for several months, using it for browsing web forums with Firefox 31.8 (as I recall -- anyway the latest I could install without a hang) which is most of what I do online. It was EXCELLENT including being an excellent performer.

Even web browsing, though, is standing close to the fence around what works: There's no support for USB or anything else that'll let you get files OFF of an ROS machine and none of the usual peripherals are supported except for those needed to install and boot an OS. Even the hardware itself: SSD's appear to not be allowed and I was unable to install ROS on a D-420, D-620, or D-410 -- only worked on a D-610.

And then somebody out there -- DISQUS maybe? -- changed something and I could no longer do comments. (I forget details.) So I'm back on XP.

I think ROS's problem is that it appears (to an outsider) to be a hobby project. It's not just a lack of a completion date; there isn't even a focus on getting basic functions to work before developing interesting variants. Over several months of running it I installed maybe a dozen new nightlies and never saw a functional step forward. There were three or four that wouldn't install or wouldn't boot after install (to be expected with alpha code) but to see no functional change suggests that most of the work is elsewhere. Someone mentioned 'virtualizing the OS.' I don't know what that means but it doesn't seem close to working USB, video, ability to run more current Firefox and a broader range of other apps, and so on.

There's probably no choice about this approach: It IS a hobby, meaning the people doing it will do what they enjoy. The danger is that there's some deadline out there that we don't yet know about that will end the project. Certainly there's a soft deadline as those who are used to an OS that runs on your own machine gradually go away and those who replace us see nothing wrong with having both data and programs 'in the cloud.' Of course that's already starting to happen ...

What? "If you wanna run ReactOS go buy a 2008 desktop computer and install Windows XP in order to download and install ROS ..." How many people who don't have an obsolete desktop and experience using it will be able to follow those directions, ten years hence? People who know how to use a desktop (or laptop) are a decaying resource and I have a hard time seeing any new OS getting many of them to start at the beginning. Sure, ROS probably intends to track new hardware developments but what if personal computers stop being full-OS capable because they run critical OS functions in the cloud? Lots of governments would like that and I doubt Microsoft or the manufacturers they (effectively) control would object.

I really don't have a conclusion here. There's a ton of fine work in what exists today -- 90% of what's needed to be called 'beta,' I'd say. Someone (more than one?) did a dramatic clean-up of the disk i/o over the period 2018-fall 2019 when I had stopped using it because of too many trashed disks. I hope it can go on from here to something closer to 'usable with occasional errors.' Certainly I'll look in again from time to time.

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dizt3mp3r
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by dizt3mp3r »

90% of what's needed to be called Alpha.
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Tyco72
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Tyco72 »

I am indeed very surprised that countries like Russia and China didn't finance heavily ReactOS, to get quickly an open and independent OS ready, spyware free and binary compatible with Windows. A few millions $ and it would have been ready since years ago.
An open OS binary compatible with Windows, is all what the PC world is waiting for.
jcordeiro wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:33 pm
Look at Distros now:
Single 2 or 3 "next" clicks and its installed.
Good looks.
2 3 clicks to get software

It's 10000 times nicer than it was in 2000.
Yes, great! And the files of the installed software are spread everywhere, mixed together with the files of all other applications in your system. With its developer-oriented and primitive architecture, Linux can stay on servers.
And "click-> click" works as well the software you need is contained in the cloud of the repository. No thanks! It makes Linux also a "could based" OS. Does nobody notice that?
You are bounded to "cloud" repositories and limited to the versions (mostly quite older than the latest) of the software you want. And what if the SW is not contained, or if you want a specific version of a software, because the newer version have something you don't like or it has some problem for you? Then have fun with package managers and command line, in year 2020 on a desktop OS! Not to mention to install/uninstall device drivers...

I have tried Linux several times, each time more deeply, also recently. And I will definitely no more waste one single second of time with it in my life. It is simply not a Desktop OS, it is deeply designed to be not a desktop OS, and it will never be. I will rather waste my time in tweaking Win10 (but I will stick with win7 until my SW run on it).
Use Linux for an internet kiosk, put it in a smartphone, in a router, in a clock, but not on a "Desktop PC". Its 1,5% market share after 20 years speaks clear.

Julcar
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Julcar »

Out there are peple like me, who dislikes the onwards of windows vista+
Since 2009 I bought 4 laptops, the first 3 were x86_64 based, first comes with Windows 7 starter, in a few days I wiped the disk and installed windows 2003, 2nd laptop was an used one, with origjnal vista, wiped the disk and installed xp, 3rd laptop came without OS (I choosed freedos from fabric) wiped the disk and was the first wich I installed Tinycore Linux (the only linux I don't hate) and dual boot with ReactOS, but sadly with ReactOS I wasn't able to use the full potential of the hw, because the system only used 1 core, leaving three cores off, months after I had to sell the laptop to my brother and finally I bought an ARM based netbook with android.

In this last netbook is a must to use ReactOS on an emulator app, and it is enough ligther to allow me run windows apps on this device, neither XP or 2003 was able to run on emulator, very heavy for the virtual machine.

So, for me ReactOS is important part of my work, that's the reason I am very active reporting bugs and testing apps, my congrats with the project and the devs for his permanent work.

Murmur
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Murmur »

From my two cents. I used to work for a software company that needed to deploy their software with very specific settings and was heavy enough that it needed to be installed by itself. So if something like react worked 100% that means we could wrap the software on a lean version of react. This would lower deployment costs and time.

I don't know if I would be using react over windows as a daily driver but it will give me choices, being an windows admin it could give me a troubleshooting tool, ability to suggest an alternative to people who want something more simple or just something to play around with.

I also have tried linux a few times over the years but I find that windows just works for everything I do and Linux is a fight to make it work properly (especially with games)

Also one late note is that I am following the writing on the wall and in a few years everything will be cloud based. Windows won't have a standalone version eventually.

Kalle
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Kalle »

How big is the delta between what exists now and a ReactOS 1.0 release? That is, something that is stable and compatible enough to use on a daily basis? Will it ever get there? If not, what is missing for it to be possible?

learn_more
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by learn_more »

Kalle wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:51 pm
How big is the delta between what exists now and a ReactOS 1.0 release? That is, something that is stable and compatible enough to use on a daily basis? Will it ever get there? If not, what is missing for it to be possible?
yes

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dizt3mp3r
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by dizt3mp3r »

No.
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binarymaster
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by binarymaster »

Maybe.

wildschwein
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by wildschwein »

I am indeed very surprised that countries like Russia and China didn't finance heavily ReactOS, to get quickly an open and independent OS ready, spyware free and binary compatible with Windows. A few millions $ and it would have been ready since years ago.
An open OS binary compatible with Windows, is all what the PC world is waiting for.
I know the answer...they aren't ALLOWED to support Reactos - from the invisible forces behind !
They don't want an OS that have no "super emergency" backdoors...

Otherwise it would be so logical for China, that invest Billions of Dollar in Africa, to support Reactos with ridicolous ten million dollar.
They could give the money with strong restriction - and only gradually. Only if goals were achieved.
Ten full time developer for Reactos - and things would look better...

EZB is printing 600 Billion Dollars these days...why is there so sparse money for Reactos, that is a very good and useful worldwide project.

Let's hope for a lot of young people about 20+ that join Reactos Project, i saw same new "faces" in forum like Oleg, who works hard on testing Reactos...

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