Start Menù button icon

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oldman
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:23 pm

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by oldman »

Swyter wrote: If you can't be bothered and you are waiting for others to fulfill your ideas then the suggestion is not that great. Keep it civil.
If you think that my posts are less than civil, then you are reading into them something which is not there!
Swyter wrote: You know what a meritocracy means? It has to do with that people who have been consistently working on improving the look and feel of a software suite for more than a year have a more relevant opinion than an armchair critic. Also, this is not constructive, if you want to suggest improvements then show us a mock-up and a patch in JIRA instead of reusing the oldest designs known by man.
Art work is not my thing, neither am I any good as a coder (as stated elsewhere in the forum). Yes, I am an armchair critic on this subject, because of what I have just stated, but I am not one of those that come here and make posts saying "We" should do this and "We" should do that; I still do not consider myself to be anybody around here (a WE), though I have been following, trying out and testing ROS (whenever I have had the Internet available to me) for 15 or 16 years. I have gotten through 3 computers in recent years, testing ROS (my last one as become useless for testing in the last few weeks), created over 100 Jira issues. Is my opinion of no value?

Note: There is no animosity on part in these discussions.
Please keep the Windows classic (9x/2000) look and feel.
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Swyter
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Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by Swyter »

oldman wrote: Art work is not my thing, neither am I any good as a coder (as stated elsewhere in the forum). Yes, I am an armchair critic on this subject, because of what I have just stated, but I am not one of those that come here and make posts saying "We" should do this and "We" should do that; I still do not consider myself to be anybody around here (a WE), though I have been following, trying out and testing ROS (whenever I have had the Internet available to me) for 15 or 16 years. I have gotten through 3 computers in recent years, testing ROS (my last one as become useless for testing in the last few weeks), created over 100 Jira issues. Is my opinion of no value?

Note: There is no animosity on part in these discussions.
Well, I code, and design and pixel-push icons and in my opinion the current one is perfectly decent and crystal clear. Can be improved? Sure. Does the original atom icon work fine at 16px? Nope, at those resolutions gets turned into a blurry mess. The current one is an adapted version that fits the bill for the time being. Going back does not solve anything, in any case we should work on improving the improvement.

Testing builds is, of course, useful and respectable, everyone has their own fields of expertise. While contributing your time to the project is laudable, we ask you to trust the team behind the recent graphic refurbishment. That argument of 2 vs 2 is pretty silly and and, personally, lands as a bit ungrateful.
External patch contributor for ux/user-mode/l10n/winapi. Sometimes I fix a bit of everything everywhere.

merella
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:28 pm

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by merella »

Swyter wrote:
oldman wrote: Art work is not my thing, neither am I any good as a coder (as stated elsewhere in the forum). Yes, I am an armchair critic on this subject, because of what I have just stated, but I am not one of those that come here and make posts saying "We" should do this and "We" should do that; I still do not consider myself to be anybody around here (a WE), though I have been following, trying out and testing ROS (whenever I have had the Internet available to me) for 15 or 16 years. I have gotten through 3 computers in recent years, testing ROS (my last one as become useless for testing in the last few weeks), created over 100 Jira issues. Is my opinion of no value?

Note: There is no animosity on part in these discussions.
Well, I code, and design and pixel-push icons and in my opinion the current one is perfectly decent and crystal clear. Can be improved? Sure. Does the original atom icon work fine at 16px? Nope, at those resolutions gets turned into a blurry mess. The current one is an adapted version that fits the bill for the time being. Going back does not solve anything, in any case we should work on improving the improvement.

Testing builds is, of course, useful and respectable, everyone has their own fields of expertise. While contributing your time to the project is laudable, we ask you to trust the team behind the recent graphic refurbishment. That argument of 2 vs 2 is pretty silly and and, personally, lands as a bit ungrateful.
Maybe someone have the pleasure to adapt the atom logo for the start button. I've not the knowledge to adapt the icon :(

Pi_User5
Posts: 752
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Location: United States

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by Pi_User5 »

oldman wrote:
Pi_User5
oldman wrote:
The community edition is the one that is to have the modern look, the standard edition is the one that was to keep the classic look (Windows 2000).
Not sure where you heard that from. If that was true, I would not have spent all my free time fixing the icons in trunk
Look here and Victor did a mockup somewhere for the community edition.
Pi_User5
If you want to use that old icon, replace it in your working copy and use that instead
I am aware of that option!
Pi_User5
of trying to pollute trunk with old, blurry icons that were replaced years ago.
pollute! We are talking of one icon only; how does one icon pollute the trunk?
If you are worried about too many icons in the trunk, then ask about getting rid of icons where their value is in either, advertising the OS (Start button) or to make it look pretty, like Device Manager, Drivers and Hardware Profile in the Hardware tab of System Properties. Icons are only necessary (in my opinion) for shortcuts and files, I can think of no other places where they are needed.


But back to the Start button icon; both me and merella like the original ROS logo atom icon and you and Swyter like the new plain atom icon. Does anyone else have an opinion?
That photo of CE? I took that one because I work on CE and Vic and Amine needed some.
Swyter wrote:
oldman wrote: Art work is not my thing, neither am I any good as a coder (as stated elsewhere in the forum). Yes, I am an armchair critic on this subject, because of what I have just stated, but I am not one of those that come here and make posts saying "We" should do this and "We" should do that; I still do not consider myself to be anybody around here (a WE), though I have been following, trying out and testing ROS (whenever I have had the Internet available to me) for 15 or 16 years. I have gotten through 3 computers in recent years, testing ROS (my last one as become useless for testing in the last few weeks), created over 100 Jira issues. Is my opinion of no value?

Note: There is no animosity on part in these discussions.
Well, I code, and design and pixel-push icons and in my opinion the current one is perfectly decent and crystal clear. Can be improved? Sure. Does the original atom icon work fine at 16px? Nope, at those resolutions gets turned into a blurry mess. The current one is an adapted version that fits the bill for the time being. Going back does not solve anything, in any case we should work on improving the improvement.

Testing builds is, of course, useful and respectable, everyone has their own fields of expertise. While contributing your time to the project is laudable, we ask you to trust the team behind the recent graphic refurbishment. That argument of 2 vs 2 is pretty silly and and, personally, lands as a bit ungrateful.
There was a reason why it was replaced because it's blurry at 16 pixels. When I find the commit that replaced it, we'll know why. I also think that atom was designed to be used for the bitmap on the loading screen. And then someone decided it would look good for the start menu. Well, they were wrong. Look at this: [ external image ]
That has the current start menu icon but at 16 colors because 0.2 only supported 16 colors and not 32. So there.The icon you want probably looked better at 16 colors. So yes, going with what Swyter said, if the people of ReactOS did not trust the UX team, then these icons could not have been changed/fixed.
I use ReactOS on real hardware. Will you? My Computers: https://www.reactos.org/wiki/PC_ROS_Rigs Go all the way to the bottom.

[ external image ]

oldman
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:23 pm

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by oldman »

Pi_User5
That has the current start menu icon but at 16 colors because 0.2 only supported 16 colors and not 32. So there.The icon you want probably looked better at 16 colors. So yes, going with what Swyter said, if the people of ReactOS did not trust the UX team, then these icons could not have been changed/fixed.
I agree with you, that they look terrible at 16 bit colour depth, though the start button icon looks just a little bit better than the desktop icons. The question is; who and/or what uses 16 bit colour these days?

Is there a write-up about "UX team", because I for one, would like to know more.
Please keep the Windows classic (9x/2000) look and feel.
The layman's guides to - debugging - bug reporting - compiling - ISO remaster.
They may help you with a problem, so do have a look at them.

User avatar
Swyter
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:21 am
Location: Spain ← Europe ← Planet Earth ← Milky Way ← Universe

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by Swyter »

oldman wrote:
Pi_User5
That has the current start menu icon but at 16 colors because 0.2 only supported 16 colors and not 32. So there.The icon you want probably looked better at 16 colors. So yes, going with what Swyter said, if the people of ReactOS did not trust the UX team, then these icons could not have been changed/fixed.
I agree with you, that they look terrible at 16 bit colour depth, though the start button icon looks just a little bit better than the desktop icons. The question is; who and/or what uses 16 bit colour these days?

Is there a write-up about "UX team", because I for one, would like to know more.
We're an informal, loosely-coupled group of contributors helping each other. Nothing official, but the work is there.
External patch contributor for ux/user-mode/l10n/winapi. Sometimes I fix a bit of everything everywhere.

merella
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:28 pm

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by merella »

Good, now i can see very constructive answers :D
I've started this thread for talking about of the UX, maybe is better to create a jira bug for the start button?

User avatar
Konata
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:54 pm

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by Konata »

oldman wrote:
Pi_User5
That has the current start menu icon but at 16 colors because 0.2 only supported 16 colors and not 32. So there.The icon you want probably looked better at 16 colors. So yes, going with what Swyter said, if the people of ReactOS did not trust the UX team, then these icons could not have been changed/fixed.
I agree with you, that they look terrible at 16 bit colour depth, though the start button icon looks just a little bit better than the desktop icons. The question is; who and/or what uses 16 bit colour these days?

Is there a write-up about "UX team", because I for one, would like to know more.
Well, nothing "these days" uses 16-bit color depth. But ReactOS 0.2.0 wasn't made "these days", it was released at the dawn of the century. 2000-era computers and graphics chips supported true color, but without the proper drivers, it may have only supported 16-bit or even 8-bit color out of the box. Making sure 16-bit color worked before 32-bit color probably offered a lot more real hardware to test on. But, that's just my theory anyway.

PurpleGurl
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:11 am
Location: USA

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by PurpleGurl »

Most drivers let you select 16 or 32 bits. I used to set things to 16 bit in order to make slower machines seem faster (which I now know is not always the case due to code alignment issues and register sizes). One thing I hope we do in ROS is allow for 16m+ color icons. They do exist, and there is a test utility to see if you get a whole gradient (16m) or a hole in the center of the icon (256). It is a mod that people used to do in Windows Explorer for most versions. I even patched a version (Windows 2000) that didn't have the exact addresses for the code as the ones given (for 95, 98, and XP). So that is something we could do in ROS (if not already done) without breaking compatibility. Icons intended for 16, 24, or 32 bits certainly look better when at least 16m colors are allowed in the icons and the system tray than when artificially limited to 256 colors.

Carlo Bramix
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:43 am
Location: Italy

Re: Start Menù button icon

Post by Carlo Bramix »

Me too, I think that this icon and bitmap with "drunk" orbits look very bad... see:

https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-10660

If I can say my opinion, if the "old" logo cannot be resurrected for various reasons, it would be a good idea to ask to some friends/artists the good will to spend some energies to design a decent picture for the START menu, because this is the very first thing that an user will look when he will begin to use ReactOS.

manuel
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:20 pm
Location: México
Contact:

Re: Start Menú button icon

Post by manuel »

Based on https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-10660 . I use a combination of themed button icon and current start menu icon.

Normal button
[ external image ]
Pressed button
[ external image ]

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