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About showing pictures of hacked/illegal software

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:04 pm
by Z98
.............

Code of Conduct 4. No discussion of how to carry out illegal activities or advertisement thereof.

This includes how to find warez and other illegal downloading activities. This is a bannable offense. Keep the site clean.

Proclaiming that you have a "hacked" version of a commercial game is about as direct of a violation of that rule as I can think of.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:22 pm
by Konata
Not to question your judgement as a moderator, Z98, but I'd think he would only be in violation for directly offering a method to obtain an illegal image of a game or cracking software. There are no such links or directions for obtaining anything illegal in his post. I hardly think a screenshot counts, even Wikipedia has screenshots of video games.

I'm pretty sure there are legal-to-download homebrew games specifically for demoing emulators like Desmume, though. Perhaps he can be persuaded to try one of those and replace his original post, if it's that much of a concern. I can't find any, strangely. I was sure Desmume was developed with one. I'd assume demos of games are legal. I think it also might be legal to own/download a ROM if you own the physical game, but that might be a rumor, I have no idea.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:50 pm
by EmuandCo
It's legal in Germany at least. As long as he does not post the binary here, we should all be fine, but this issue is a bit... special though. Otherwise Wine would have a BIG problem in it's compat DB where many games are shown in cracked state to work at all. I think this was more a reminder and no warning to you guys, otherwise the post would have been deleted.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:10 pm
by Z98
I really don't care about the screenshot. The problem here is the open proclamation that he has obtained a ROM in a potentially illegal manner. If it was just a screenshot, it's open to interpretation, and the ambiguity means I and the other moderators can just "assume" the best and that he acquired it in a legal manner. His remark stating that the screenshot is of a "hacked" ROM eliminates that ambiguity and we are forced to take notice.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:31 am
by the average no
My understanding of what MugenFighter said is that he's showing off a romhack/mod he is making for Ben 10, if he owns a physical copy we don't know, but romhacking is more of a grey area. If he was asking for money for it or distributing it with the ROM (as opposed to a patch to apply to the original game) then it enters more illegal territory. But he's just disclosing why it looks different to the vanilla game, because he's modding it.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:01 pm
by MugenFighter
the average no wrote:My understanding of what MugenFighter said is that he's showing off a romhack/mod he is making for Ben 10, if he owns a physical copy we don't know, but romhacking is more of a grey area. If he was asking for money for it or distributing it with the ROM (as opposed to a patch to apply to the original game) then it enters more illegal territory. But he's just disclosing why it looks different to the vanilla game, because he's modding it.
That is right I have no need or want to break rules or laws, just explaining why it looks different. I do actually do own a physical copy. I used the hacked rom because it happened to be in the same folder as the emulator (I copied the emulator and roms from my computer), but I didn't want people to think it was a photoshopped picture. ROM hacking to my understanding is legal if you (A) own the original game (B) don't sell the game and (C) don't change the story of the game (kind of a grey area). I'm also only not releasing the rom hack, again it was just easier to drag and drop it.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:25 pm
by Z98
In the US it is actually by default not legal if you needed to circumvent any sort of copy protection in the process.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:32 pm
by MugenFighter
Z98 wrote:In the US it is actually by default not legal if you needed to circumvent any sort of copy protection in the process.
This game didn't have any of that...

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:40 pm
by Z98
So your claim is that the original DS cartridge that you dumped this from did not possess DRM that you circumvented in order to do a ROM dump? And if you claim that you didn't personally do the ROM dump, you're opening a whole other can of worms due to the ambiguity in fair use provisions. A can that I don't want opened on this forum because then it becomes I then will be obliged to enforce rule 4.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:10 pm
by MugenFighter
Z98 wrote:So your claim is that the original DS cartridge that you dumped this from did not possess DRM that you circumvented in order to do a ROM dump? And if you claim that you didn't personally do the ROM dump, you're opening a whole other can of worms due to the ambiguity in fair use provisions. A can that I don't want opened on this forum because then it becomes I then will be obliged to enforce rule 4.
Let's just drop this. I'm tired of explaining myself. But for your information according to US law I can download any ROM that I own a legal physical copy of. Also if I'm not planning on distributing it than it is not an issue. ROM hacking ONLY becomes a problem when you distribute the rom or a patch, neither of which I plan on doing. I also own a legal physical copy of the game. So what is your problem? Because there isn't a legal issue here.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:01 am
by dizt3mp3r
Everything needs to be above-board. ReactOS needs to be perceived to be squeaky clean in every respect. Don't even mention hacked or ripped software here. Z98 isn't enforcing the rule, he hasn't done that yet, he is simply explaining the concept of attempting to be whiter-than-white.

Can we please remove ALL these recent posts arguing about what is legal or not (including mine) and restore this thread to "Epic Win" please.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:40 am
by EmuandCo
OK, guys, I never thought that I have to say that somewhere in the future, because normally things happen quite vice versa, but... BACK TO TOPIC, even you z98! Showing a image of a custom hack is !!NOT!! illegal and all discussion about that topic is completely useless, especially when it tends to become more of a thread hijacking! DesMuMe can run almost all DS games, even copy protected aka Flash card detecting ones and emulators are not illegal, too! This thing even is open source. And to be completely out of business here, there is no copy protection except the custom media used for the DS game in the game and if he shows us a custom modification he made himself, it's still fine. Btw, you know that we even have some emulators in RAPPS, do you?

/me awaits the wrath of the forum king now.

Re: EPIC WIN!

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:04 am
by dizt3mp3r
Please move the recent threads to a NEW post please. This is NOT the epic win thread.

I am directing people to this thread...

Re: About showing pictures of hacked/illegal software

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:35 pm
by vicmarcal
Ok, splitted because this was being a mess.
Probably the Z98 reaction creates more Streissand effect that the picture itself really.
To begin with several trials against pages with links to illegal software or to torrents have concluded in them not being illegal unless the files were hosted by them. It is illegal to host the apps but not illegal to have a page which links to hacked/copyrighted material. In the same way, pictures of illegal-cracked-hacked software is not illegal per se.
Otherwise Google would have a big problem. You can easily find tons of images and hacked material using that big web called Google.
On the other hand, ReactOS is not hosting the copyrighted material, even more, nor the picture(which again is not illegal) so we are safe as a project. ReactOS, and any forum, is enforced to contact the authorities in case there is an obvious illegal action(pedophilic photos, pictures of a murdering, etc) which is not the case.
To begin with sharing a picture is not illegal, we're not doing anything illegal. The only responsible of that picture is the one who took it. A perfect example is Youtube: You can find guys doing crazy shit because driving almost drunk but since there is no crystal-clear proof they cant remove them.
We can't know if this picture is illegal or not:
1)Because modding your software is legal since the minute you bought it.
2)Because you can have a security backup/copy if ou bought the original.
And, in the best case, the one doing something illegal would be the poster and not ReactOS as a project.
That's the main reason we have the disclaimer of "Posters are responsible of their own opinions and content"
We are not enforcing anyone to test illegal sw, we are not giving them tools or links to illegal sw(rapps just contain legal sw), so really this is just "overprotecting" the project.
Again, being overprotective could result in much worse PR effect than the PR effect of a picture of a guy using a-legal software(for me it is not illegal at all but placing my feet in the worst case scenario).
I know Z98 wants to protect the ReactOS Baby because he loves it, so please let's not create a snowball of this fact because:
1)Streissand Effect
2)We all here Love ReactOS. We are all supporters. We are all pushing forward.
Sorry my grammar, spellin but I am in the mobile and I thiught it was important to cut this ball asap.

Re: About showing pictures of hacked/illegal software

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:52 pm
by dizt3mp3r
Thankyou for that little bit of reasonableness. Calm is restored.