Call for JIRA sherpas

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middings
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Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by middings » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:31 pm

In the Support forum topic UNIATA Hangs when BIOS set to "sata ide combined mode" Webunny identified a drawback to the ReactOS bug reporting that has been bothering me and others:
Webunny wrote:Couldn't some construct be devised that makes it easier for people to just point out bugs, and make sure it gets noted, without going to the whole JIRA-process? Or get it into JIRA more easily?

...I suggest establishing a semi-official system whereby people routinely on the forum who already have a password and already have made JIRA-reports, could and would paste - in a structured processed way, the bug reports of newbies, or those who can't or won't go through the official JIRA process. (edited by middings)
I offer this: I step up and volunteer to be a JIRA sherpa. The next time I see a post in the Support forum from a new ReactOS experimenter that points out a (possible) bug and the ReactOS forum community has no advice to offer that resolves the issue, I will step up as a volunteer and make the bug report in JIRA myself.

Let us stand on each other's shoulders, not on each other's toes. (Homebrew Computer Club, circa 1978)

Webunny
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by Webunny » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:33 pm

middings wrote:In the Support forum topic UNIATA Hangs when BIOS set to "sata ide combined mode" Webunny identified a drawback to the ReactOS bug reporting that has been bothering me and others:
Webunny wrote:Couldn't some construct be devised that makes it easier for people to just point out bugs, and make sure it gets noted, without going to the whole JIRA-process? Or get it into JIRA more easily?

...I suggest establishing a semi-official system whereby people routinely on the forum who already have a password and already have made JIRA-reports, could and would paste - in a structured processed way, the bug reports of newbies, or those who can't or won't go through the official JIRA process. (edited by middings)
I offer this: I step up and volunteer to be a JIRA sherpa. The next time I see a post in the Support forum from a new ReactOS experimenter that points out a (possible) bug and the ReactOS forum community has no advice to offer that resolves the issue, I will step up as a volunteer and make the bug report in JIRA myself.

Let us stand on each other's shoulders, not on each other's toes. (Homebrew Computer Club, circa 1978)
oh, didn't see this in time. I responded in the other thread. I'm willing to help out too, though we should probably have some standardised structure first, so people describe the problem they found in a way that makes it more easily transferable to JIRA. I think if we do all the work and don't ask for devs to do something for it or change the ways they're used to, they won't have anything against it. In fact, they can't really: it's, in essence, us saying we'll put it in JIRA: there is nothing they can complain about.

One thing might be follow-up, as black-fox has said, though.

If a few more members are willing to help out too, I think this will work long term as well. Purplegirl? :-) Others?

Pi_User5
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by Pi_User5 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:54 pm

I could help.
I use ReactOS on real hardware. Will you? My Computers: https://www.reactos.org/wiki/PC_ROS_Rigs Go all the way to the bottom.

Image

middings
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by middings » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:13 pm

Webunny wrote:I'm willing to help out too... If a few more members are willing to help out too, I think this will work long term as well. Purplegirl? :-) Others?
Pi_User5 wrote:I could help.
Ok, let's just do it.
Webunny wrote:I'm willing to help out too, though we should probably have some standardised structure first, so people describe the problem they found in a way that makes it more easily transferable to JIRA.
Perhaps personal attention will be the only practical "standardized structure" possible. If a the newcomer's post in the Support forum does not describe the problem clearly enough to make a bug report, the JIRA sherpa who takes on that newcomer's issue will simply have to reply to the post with questions until the JIRA sherpa understands the newcomer's problem well enough to report the bug in JIRA.
Webunny wrote:I think if we do all the work and don't ask for devs to do something for it or change the ways they're used to, they won't have anything against it. In fact, they can't really: it's, in essence, us saying we'll put it in JIRA: there is nothing they can complain about.
I believe that the developers (devs) appreciate people who take initiative to solve problems (unless they interfere with or impose on someone else).
Webunny wrote:One thing might be follow-up, as black-fox has said, though.
True. Still, the new ReactOS user received a response (though not the solution the user wished to get) and contributed to the project in a small way with new information about a possible bug. If the project never hears from that ReactOS user again and that user's bug was related to that user's unusual hardware or software, then the bug will eventually be marked as Cannot Reproduce.

milon
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by milon » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:48 am

Hehe, I didn't see this thread until now either. Most of my time online is through my phone, which makes Jira & typing a bit of a hassle. I'm really glad to see this, and I think it will make JIRA entries much stronger. If I had more "desktop leisure time" I'd volunteer to be a Sherpa myself. :)

Aeneas
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by Aeneas » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:54 am

As a matter of fact, I had a similar idea a while ago. I took inspiration from the way Windows and Linux report errors. It's basically a simple "do you want to send an error report?".

Now - I am not a developer, but I ask this:

Is it not possible to create some smallish app that generates a text file and dumps it e.g. via ftp somewhere?

That app should be run shortly before the offending program is run. The user opens the app, then clicks "start" when he is about to start an offending program. The app then taps into the serial port and whatever other resources appear advisable in order to collect data. Then the user runs the offending program, which crashes or malfunctions or whatever. Then the user closes the offending program. Then he clicks "stop" on the app that was running in parallel. The app then asks the user in an (optional?) text field, "Please tell us what went wrong:" and the user has some 2000 chars to write a message. - Then the app dumps both the user's description and the collected data in some online place at ReactOS.org.

I am sure if ReactOS makes it hassle-free, they will be able to collect a lot more error reports than the currently do. Currently, when something crashes, people are just tempted to say, "yeah, a crashy alpha, who cares" - and the project cannot learn from their experiences.

rembrandt
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by rembrandt » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:35 pm

Aeneas wrote:As a matter of fact, I had a similar idea a while ago. I took inspiration from the way Windows and Linux report errors. It's basically a simple "do you want to send an error report?".

Now - I am not a developer, but I ask this:

Is it not possible to create some smallish app that generates a text file and dumps it e.g. via ftp somewhere?

That app should be run shortly before the offending program is run. The user opens the app, then clicks "start" when he is about to start an offending program. The app then taps into the serial port and whatever other resources appear advisable in order to collect data. Then the user runs the offending program, which crashes or malfunctions or whatever. Then the user closes the offending program. Then he clicks "stop" on the app that was running in parallel. The app then asks the user in an (optional?) text field, "Please tell us what went wrong:" and the user has some 2000 chars to write a message. - Then the app dumps both the user's description and the collected data in some online place at ReactOS.org.

I am sure if ReactOS makes it hassle-free, they will be able to collect a lot more error reports than the currently do. Currently, when something crashes, people are just tempted to say, "yeah, a crashy alpha, who cares" - and the project cannot learn from their experiences.
Sounds like a good idea. "Dr. Strangelove" instead of Dr. Watson :twisted:

middings
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by middings » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:18 pm

Aeneas wrote:I am not a developer, but I ask this:

Is it not possible to create some smallish app that generates a text file and dumps it e.g. via ftp somewhere?

...I am sure if ReactOS makes it hassle-free, they will be able to collect a lot more error reports than the currently do. Currently, when something crashes, people are just tempted to say, "yeah, a crashy alpha, who cares" - and the project cannot learn from their experiences.
Your suggestion is worth a topic of its own. The idea of an automated crash reporting tool in ReactOS has been suggested several times before. Such a tool would be wonderful to have. Sadly, because the suggestion is made in forum topics that are primarily about something else, the idea is lost. Also, the idea remains only talk because those who suggest the idea do not code the idea. ("Talk is cheap. Show me the code." Linus Torvalds) Finally, if someone wrote such a tool, someone would have to build and manage a server to accept the automated crash reports, and someone would have to look at all the collected data to figure out what it means and use it. Right now, our friend 'someone' is already very busy and not available to take on all that new work for the project.

The JIRA sherpa idea is one that I (and anyone else who thinks it is a good idea) can carry out without imposing on the ReactOS devs or making extra work for someone else.

At Lockheed Martin, the rocket engineers have a saying that to build a big rocket that flies do not start by designing a new big rocket that has never flown but start with a small rocket that flies.

karlexceed
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by karlexceed » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:12 pm

Indeed, I recently started a thread about error reporting, though coming at it from the "replicate Windows' functionality" view.

If we want a one-shot app that a user can run when we have an offending application, known in advance, then that's fairly straightforward.
It could even be included in RApps for use when needed.

Here's the FTP upload piece, using libcurl (Curl and libcurl are licensed under a MIT/X derivative license):
http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/ftpupload.html

Straight from the examples ;)

Now, the hard parts, of course, are the "gather the relevant data" and "do something with all the reports" parts. If we could come up with what constitutes 'relevant data' that is accessible from within ROS itself during runtime, then we'd be a lot closer to being able to actually build something functional here.

The last part, though, "do something with all the reports", is really where the rubber meets the road. Someone needs to analyze, organize, etc, and then boil down the received reports into actionable data. Submit to JIRA, etc.

middings
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Re: Call for JIRA sherpas

Post by middings » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:45 pm

karlexceed wrote:Indeed, I recently started a thread about error reporting...
Found it! ReactOS Error Reporting

Everybody who wants to discuss adding automated crash reporting to ReactOS can talk about it there instead of going off-topic here.

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