Blog: Moonshot Finale

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justincase
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by justincase »

Webuny, why would you think that 500 pre-orders might be enough be enough? are you thinking that the production run would be 700?
If I've correctly read Z98's comments so far the production run would be 1000 Hackbunnies, and he and/or the ReactOS Project is apparently willing to take on the possibility of having to store up to 300 'extras' for a time, making for the (reasonable) requirement of "at least 700 firm pre-orders".

Why do you feel the need to argue against Z98 so much? (rhetoric) You could work things out together, without the accusatory tone you seem to get so often.
Maybe you should try something more along the lines of 'OK Z98, let's see if we can work this out. Would [insert proposal here] work?' and if the response is no, perhaps 'Oh OK, well how about [insert revised proposal here]?'

Z98: So if someone were to make a KickStarter or IndieGoGo Campaign (to reiterate this should be explicitly OK'd by the Project before anyone actually does it) $50,000 would be good 'goal'? (to cover 700 Hackbunnies + shipping?) or is that underestimating shipping costs? or could it be lower? ... or would it specifically have to be 700 or more pre-orders? (can KS or IGG be set to succeed/fail based solely on how many of one of the perks sell?)
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Z98
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by Z98 »

Shipping is always considered separately. So if the backing tier is $30 then there's almost always an additional "Add x for shipping" tagline. As for the funding level that would be required, assuming a price of $30 and the need eat through 700 of the production batch, we're talking about ~$21,000, not $50,000.

justincase
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by justincase »

I was basing that calculation on the $50 figure just to be safe. And I was also assuming that the 'goal' would have to include the shipping costs because (with what little experience with KS/IGG I have) I thought they counted all the money, whether it was for the perk itself or for the shipping of said perk, toward the 'goal'. Is this incorrect?
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

Webunny
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by Webunny »

justincase wrote:Webuny, why would you think that 500 pre-orders might be enough be enough? are you thinking that the production run would be 700?
If I've correctly read Z98's comments so far the production run would be 1000 Hackbunnies, and he and/or the ReactOS Project is apparently willing to take on the possibility of having to store up to 300 'extras' for a time, making for the (reasonable) requirement of "at least 700 firm pre-orders".
See below.
Why do you feel the need to argue against Z98 so much? (rhetoric) You could work things out together, without the accusatory tone you seem to get so often.
Maybe you should try something more along the lines of 'OK Z98, let's see if we can work this out. Would [insert proposal here] work?' and if the response is no, perhaps 'Oh OK, well how about [insert revised proposal here]?'
Tssk. Justincase... 8-) Do you still not know by now putting 'rhetorical' on there has no use in avoiding a response if I feel a response is warranted. :)

I understand your remark about arguing. I think z98 has the same problem (in attitude). Also, we both don't feel like wasting our time. Come to think of it, we might be too much alike, maybe. The main problem with debating it with z98 (from my viewpoint, that is), is the lack of clarity. You either want to have a try at the project but can't because of certain obstacles, but then brainstorming about ways to overcome those obstacles shouldn't be seen as being 'pushy'. OR you actually don't want to make it work, but then one should just say so, and not bother giving reasons or arguments. With z98, in this particular discussion, I constantly get mixed signals. I've done exactly what you describe: "what about [insert revised proposal here]". He said the people with storage-capacity had little time for it, I tried to come up with ways to make the spended time to be really minimal. Then he said the real problem was the shortage of manpower with the shipping, so I explained a potential way to spread the work with a distribution-system I have experience with, so as to make it possible to send things relatively cheap and could be done by someone else than the people storing the items. Then he says the real problem is not wanting to spend money on it, nor to take the risk...well... That's basically saying you don't want it.

I mean, EVERYONE wants a project where you do not have to put any manpower, time, money and effort, and yet have the benefits of it, but I would imagine everyone knows this is utterly unrealistic.

It's not like I'm not trying to find alternatives, but the first question is: does one actually want to try to make this succeed? With that, everything stays or falls, after all, and as I've said many times, I'm not keen on being on a fools' errand. Neither is z98, I imagine. Clarity, thus. Is the wish there to make it work, and what effort is one willing to do for it (including monetary effort). If the answer is: none, then obviously, we're done talking. For practical purposes 'none' and 'none outside some (un)realistic parameters' comes down to the same.

But I'm trying. Still.

Hence, why I asked about the 100/200/500 run. I've dealt with this kind of thing before, and normally a shop which has to create a set of items has economy of scale, and an item will get (sometimes considerably) cheaper the more you make. Which obviously is the case here. Now, z98 requested a very limited amount, and it was very costly. With 1000 it would be around $40. It may be interesting to know what shops are prepared to build how many plushies for how much (aka, at what price per item). This is of importance to gauge the level/rapidity at which rate the price drops or rises, according to the amount that is being made. This is not necessarily (in fact, most not) linear, however. It's then necessary to see how much people are still wanting to spend a 'certain' amount on it.

To make it clear, I will exaggerate the numbers, but let's say it costs $40 for thousand, but still a reasonable $80 for 100. In that case, it might be possible, if a majority of people still would pay that price for it, to sell 100 bunnies off reasonably fast, with a far more limited workload and needed storage-capacity, which may make it workable.

For that, we need to know how the price rises in regard to more limited amounts. I'm presuming here, of course, that 1000 isn't the strict minimum to even begin, at least not with all shops/ventures. Seen the limited amount already created now, I guess it's not inherently the case that nothing can be made under a thousand.
Z98: So if someone were to make a KickStarter or IndieGoGo Campaign (to reiterate this should be explicitly OK'd by the Project before anyone actually does it) $50,000 would be good 'goal'? (to cover 700 Hackbunnies + shipping?) or is that underestimating shipping costs? or could it be lower? ... or would it specifically have to be 700 or more pre-orders? (can KS or IGG be set to succeed/fail based solely on how many of one of the perks sell?)
I've been thinking about something like that too, but dropped it because it has little likelihood of ever succeeding. We've just done an IGG for ROS itself, and got $25000. It's not really realistic to expect a kickstarter for ROS hackbunnies to succeed in gathering the double. However, if we could lower the amount of bunnies, and still not out-price ourselves outright, some hybrid project with the next IGG next year could be feasible, mayhap.

Or...you would need an 'IGG'-alike that really let's you at it long-time, and not just 2-3 months. But I don't know if anything like that exists?
Last edited by Webunny on Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vicmarcal
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by vicmarcal »

There was about 500 backers in IGG, so expecting 500 bunnies sold is probably too much, imho. But market always surprise us.

Z98
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by Z98 »

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, the vendors that I have looked at require minimum orders of approximately a thousand units. Hence why I'm not going to bother with this until we can reasonably guarantee at least 700 of those units are reserved if not already paid for.

vicmarcal
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by vicmarcal »

Or 100 backers willing to pay an amount which covers 700 ;)

Webunny
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by Webunny »

vicmarcal wrote:Or 100 backers willing to pay an amount which covers 700 ;)
That's a bit much. :lol:

That said, if 1000 is the strict minimum, how comes there was a delivery of only 10 possible now?

Couldn't one try for 100 (or at least ask how much it then would be for each bunny)? That it would take months is, on itself, of lesser importance, since one can calculate that time in front and before one starts the project (or the next IGG project next year).

Edit: BTW, since we're talking about bunnies as potential mascot and my nickname is webunny, I thought I'd draw a mascot-bunny for ROS myself. ;) Granted I'm not an expert or great artist, but still, I think it's rather well succeeded:

[ external image ]

What do you think? :)

jimtabor
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by jimtabor »

Drunk bunny drinking wine....

Webunny
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by Webunny »

jimtabor wrote:Drunk bunny drinking Wine....

8-)

vicmarcal
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by vicmarcal »

jimtabor wrote:Drunk bunny drinking wine....
Lol, yeah, I thought exactly the same. A Drunk bunny drinking Wine. It just needs some bubbles and "hips" going out of his mouth.

jimtabor
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by jimtabor »

vicmarcal wrote:
jimtabor wrote:Drunk bunny drinking wine....
Lol, yeah, I thought exactly the same. A Drunk bunny drinking Wine. It just needs some bubbles and "hips" going out of his mouth.
LOL! Exactly! Where are the bubbles!

Webunny
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by Webunny »

z98, come to think of it...you said somewhere that you still had a stock of hackbunnies? Is that deliberate (meaning: do you *want* to keep the 3-4 bunnies), or is it just surplus stock, and can we still buy such a hackbunny?

Z98
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by Z98 »

They've all been spoken for.

Webunny
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Re: Blog: Moonshot Finale

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:They've all been spoken for.
:~(

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