SPLIT: Openess of the German foundation

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Webunny
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SPLIT: Openess of the German foundation

Post by Webunny »

janl wrote:
Yeah, he has his work cut out for him.
If Jérôme will be successful, he should be adequate rewarded (by money) considering resources from donations. Reactos will be more attractive.
It *would* indeed be nice to know what and how much goes to whom or what. I've repeated many times in the past the ROS foundation should be more transparent and open about that. They're a non-profit organisation relying on the money given by the public. I don't see why that very same public shouldn't have the right to know how exactly their money is spent. The more open you are, the more you create trust, after all. Surely, there is nothing to hide, and it seems only natural that, as an open source non-profit, you play with open cards and show your backers how their money is spent.

In fact, in my countries all non-profits are obliged to have an open bookkeeping, which can be viewed by any interested party. I guess not so in Germany, but even then, it would be a moral and ethical high stand to take.

We know gigahertz is being paid, and he's doing a pretty good job at it. But that's about all. We've just had an IGG with 25000 euro. What part is going to (pay for) developers? What part is for the infrastructure, servers, other IT-devices, maintenance, etc? Are there any extra-ordinary costs? One-time-write-offs? How is the budget-balance of ROS?

All those things could easily be made public, and for a non-profit there is no reason the hide any of it. It's telling your backers what you do with their money; seems the most-straightforward ethical thing to do. I know this sort of post usually gets ignored by the 'higher ups' - no doubt some will call me 'pushy' again - but is what I say so unreasonable? In my country, it's even obliged by law (at the very least, a yearly report/balance with the 'clerk of the court', which can be viewed by any citizen if he wishes so). The rationale behind it is quite easy to follow, and for a non-profit rather obviously the right thing to do.
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Z98 »

Please refrain from claiming that something is "easy" when you are not the one that needs to do the work. The German foundation these days holds the majority of the funds and the people involved have been wanting to produce financial reports that are publicly viewable for about a year now at this point.
Webunny
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:Please refrain from claiming that something is "easy" when you are not the one that needs to do the work. The German foundation these days holds the majority of the funds and the people involved have been wanting to produce financial reports that are publicly viewable for about a year now at this point.
Comprehensive reading. I said "it was easy to make it public" and that the rationale (for making it public) is "easy to follow". Both assertions are correct, and have nothing to do with your claim that it is not easy to make.

The first is just placing it on the internet/site as pdf or whatever, and the second is dependend on your mental ability, but only to an extent that most people would be able to understand. Nothing extra-ordinary or difficult about that.

What you use as (misplaced) counterargument is that it is difficult to *make* the balance, I presume.

I don't see why, if there is the will and ability. And I DO know what I'm talking about, since I'm in the committee of a non-profit myself, and we've been doing yearly balances for the last 30 years. One is obliged to make one every year, btw. So what did ROS do before the last year, I wonder?
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gonzoMD
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by gonzoMD »

Webbunny: One quick look at ev.reactos.org let me find for example this document http://ev.reactos.org/files/GA2014.pdf

It is not as detailed as you maybe want but there are costs summed up
Webunny
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Webunny »

gonzoMD wrote:Webbunny: One quick look at ev.reactos.org let me find for example this document http://ev.reactos.org/files/GA2014.pdf

It is not as detailed as you maybe want but there are costs summed up
4/5 of that document is some sort of... irc conversation?

It's pretty sparse and few on details, but I guess it's a start. It would be a good idea to place those documents in a bit more structured way somewhere you can find it more easily, though, so as to promote and show the openess and transparancy of the project.
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Z98 »

You indeed made the claim that something could "easily be made public" and that is the exact thing that I am disputing. If it were "easy to make public" the German foundation would have done it ages ago. That you seem to assume that no prep work is needed at all, that it would be acceptable to just do a straight dump, is a pattern that's repeated itself over and over again. In fact the "easiest" way for the foundation to provide such info is to provide a copy of meeting minutes, which was linked to you, only for you to display dissatisfaction with the form, which means that you obviously want them to do something more in presenting the information. Any additional effort quickly takes the task out of the "easy" range that you seem to think this kind of work should entail. There is always work or effort involved, the amount of which you have constantly underestimated every time you think the project should do something. Until this point gets through to you, you can continue to see a mild sense of irritation whenever we need to respond to something you propose.
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by EmuandCo »

Openess and transparency is given. You can read the whole meeting the way it was held. What is not open here??? If you want a pre chewed solution... feel free to make one.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
Webunny
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:You indeed made the claim that something could "easily be made public" and that is the exact thing that I am disputing. If it were "easy to make public" the German foundation would have done it ages ago. That you seem to assume that no prep work is needed at all, that it would be acceptable to just do a straight dump, is a pattern that's repeated itself over and over again. In fact the "easiest" way for the foundation to provide such info is to provide a copy of meeting minutes, which was linked to you, only for you to display dissatisfaction with the form, which means that you obviously want them to do something more in presenting the information. Any additional effort quickly takes the task out of the "easy" range that you seem to think this kind of work should entail. There is always work or effort involved, the amount of which you have constantly underestimated every time you think the project should do something. Until this point gets through to you, you can continue to see a mild sense of irritation whenever we need to respond to something you propose.

I'm sorry to have to point this out to you, but it comes with the job (even a voluntarily one, once you have chosen to do it). As said, a non-profit is obliged to make an annual report/balance anyway. Any non-profit. (At least in our country). You also regularly give counter-arguments in hyperbole, which doesn't do justice to the debate, and in the worst case is often used as a straw man fallacy. I did not say it didn't need ANY work, nor that it should just be a dump of irc conversations. What I'm saying is, that the preparational work, when well organised, should be manageable, and once you have the data in a good format, it's easy to make it public. The latter (which is what I said) is indisputable, so it's the 'making the raw data in a representable form' that you seem to classify as needing years to accomplish. C'mon. It's sometimes a drag, granted, but it's not overly difficult neither. Otherwise, millions of non-profits wouldn't do it. I've done so for years myself. Why is it, that everything that needs only a reasonable amount of time and effort, suddenly turns into a near-impossible difficult task for ROS? Just like some menu-buttons which normally would take half an hour to rectify, takes over 6 months. ROS ain't the only non-profit around, and there are smaller ones, and far larger and far more complex ones than ROS too, yet most other non-profits manage just fine. The problem, thus, imho, lays not with the task itself (it's not more difficult than with thousands of other non-profits), but with the organisational structure of ROS.

Maybe we use different definitions of 'easy', but once you have the appropriate data it IS easy to make it public. But yes, I'm a bit dissatisfied if instead of a reasonably detailed balancesheet, we get 6 pages of irc conversations and talks. Who wouldn't be? That's not a proper balancesheet, and you know it. That's just a way of doing the least effort and drop it out there. And yes, preparing it in a presentable form needs a bit of work, but not overduely so, and thousands of non-proftis don't seem to find it such a difficult task as you seem to imply. Normally, the treasurer takes care of that. You do have one, right? If it is really THAT difficult to distill something presentable out of the raw data, I suggest you drastically change the form of that data, and the way it's put forward (and not copy whole swats of a conversation, for starters, but summarise the 'dry' financial facts; what amount came from where and went to whom/what? Income and expenditures. *somebody* must know it, right? If not, you need to centralise this - preferably towards the one having the function of treasurer).

And you always say you are shorthanded, and that I have it easy in talking, well, fine: give me the gathered data then, and *I*'ll make a presentable balancesheet out of it in less than a weekend. If, in effect, however, it's *the gathering* of that data which is so extremely difficult, then you need to change your processes. But ROS Foundation already exists for years...so what kept you? It should have been clear after the very first time (like, what? Ten years ago?) whether or not the format/process needed change.

EmuandCo wrote:Openess and transparency is given. You can read the whole meeting the way it was held. What is not open here??? If you want a pre chewed solution... feel free to make one.
Let's not confuse things here. I was talking about a reasonably detailed balancesheet - which is lawfully obliged, I think (at least in my country).

Nobody is going to wade through whole pages of irc conversations for that; that's like 'openess through obfuscation'. ;-) Do you present your bookkeeper with a transcript of all the conversations you had? Would you/he/anyone find that acceptable as a way to (re)present your financial situation?

Then don't act as if it's acceptable for ROS to do so now neither.

It's true that you can call it 'open' since everything is viewable, but call it 'open and transparent conversations' then. For people looking for what is and has been said, this can be useful.

For people looking for a balancesheet, it ain't.
Last edited by Webunny on Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marzz
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Marzz »

Webunny does have a point - every non-profit organization has to account for its expenses and keep track of incoming and outgoing funds. It would be very informative to see how our donations are being spend, and on what/whom. Also, it shouldn't have to take more than a few hours to present a balance sheet and cash flow statement from raw data, and it's only a second if it's properly documented in a simple accounting package. It's a bit off-topic in the memory manager development blog-discussion, though :) For me, it's the first time that I understood why the ARM people were working on the memory manager rewrite in the first place! Hence, keep the blogs coming! :D
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Webunny »

Marzz wrote:Webunny does have a point - every non-profit organization has to account for its expenses and keep track of incoming and outgoing funds. It would be very informative to see how our donations are being spend, and on what/whom. Also, it shouldn't have to take more than a few hours to present a balance sheet and cash flow statement from raw data, and it's only a second if it's properly documented in a simple accounting package. It's a bit off-topic in the memory manager development blog-discussion, though :) For me, it's the first time that I understood why the ARM people were working on the memory manager rewrite in the first place! Hence, keep the blogs coming! :D
Glad you agree. Sometimes, when I see z98 responding, one would get the impression all what I say and propose is completly unrealistic or absurd or naive idiocy bathing in delusions, that only deserves irritated responses or an auto-ignore attitude, when, in fact, from an objective stand, it's what most people only would consider normal practises and common sense. The "that's only YOUR logic" is a BS stance: something is, or is not, logical. What I say is not unreasonable at all, me thinks. All what I have proposed or said now or in the past, do not strike me as unusual let alone outlandish, seen the fact it follows the most logical path and almost all of it falls squarily within normal expectations and practises.

I think many, many problems stem from ROS being badly structured and organised. I'm not saying this in an condemning or aggressive stance, but as a mere observation, in a neutral way. Take my initiative of getting a voting on wallpapers to be included in ROS (trunk). It's been days if not weeks now. I've put it up on JIRA. I don't hear or see anything of/about it. I asked if I had to provide more high-res pictures of them: no response. Is anyone looking at that? Noticed it at all, even? If there isn't, it's an example of what I just said, and if so, there is a severe lack of communication. There is no feedback whatsoever. It's even doubtful it got at the level of being seriously looked at and decided on, I suspect. I think part of that problem, is an unwieldy structured decision-making process within ROS. Everything takes ages and ages with ROS. Even accounting for being 'shorthanded', this explains not all the bureacratic-ish delays. Just delegate stuff more. Not everything needs a go-ahead of a full board/committee or even ensemble of ROS-devs. I know we're (almost) all volunteers and one does things when one likes: this introduces delays, I'm aware of that. But I can't but feel the way the decision-making process works, is rather unwieldy as well; aka, the way ROS is structured does NOT contribute to a 'lean&mean', vigorous and dynamic attitude. Does it REALLY takes weeks or months to look at the wallpapers and say: we'll take this and that one? In essence - just as with the task of making a balancesheet - it's rather straightforward, and yes, simple: it takes ten minutes do decide and to let know what goes and what doesn't. Or is it rather that there is no such person who can decide it without following a procedure which takes a half year to decide, in the best case? Often, I also sense a first-strike-denial attitude. Like with the 'wall of fame' pictures. I pointed out, fully correctly, that they were ugly and low-res/artifacted. I get a whole bunch of posts with arguments and explanations and excuses and how I'm 'pushy' - but, well, the god damn pictures WERE pixelated, low-res and ugly. Blame me and complain that I pointed that out and suggested ways to improve that. It was what it was, and no amount of denying will change the fact I was right and the pictures needed to be either high-res ones, or dealt with another way, if one wanted to let that page look decent. Which, eventually, happened. But not after a buckload of 'mildly irritated' posts filled with irrelevant comments.

Why does it always need to be this way? Why not just acknowledge that I have a point when it's logical-obvious that I have, without all the wish-wash around it? We all know a non-profit needs to have a yearly, decent balancesheet. ROS knows and has known it for years too. It's also normal practise or at least good ethical practise for a non-profit to publicly show their backers how and on what their money is being spend on. 'Difficult' is the counterargument. For f- sake: every non-profit does it, is one really claiming it's so much more diffcult for ROS than any of the other non-profits? If it is, the cause isn't the task itself, but either the people doing the job or the system (structure, procedures, etc.) that has to be followed. There, I said it. This isn't even a reproach, but a factual observation. And? Was it unreasonable what I said?
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Z98
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Z98 »

Let us go over a couple of pretty simple facts here. The German foundation was established fairly recently in the history of the project and it was only after the German foundation was established that the project began seeing large inflows of donations. Previous expenses were extremely limited because we did not have development contracts and hosting was provided by specific community members with longstanding ties to the project, several of whom nowadays have sys admin roles with us. Then as the German foundation was ramping up and getting enough money to actually contemplate more major expenditures that they would then report publicly, they got hit with a notification from tax authorities that the development contracts they wanted to do might not be legal under German law. That pretty much killed the only major expenditure that they were planning to do, and until they could get the damn tax issues straightened out, there was a great deal of confusion as to what/how they could pay for existing expenses that they were going to take over from the Russian based foundation. This wrangling took nearly two years to straighten out and doing so ate up a considerable amount of time and effort on their part. During that time the German foundation could not talk publicly about the issue until it was resolved but the team internally was kept well briefed as they consulted tax lawyers. After the issue was bypassed, we revealed the existence of the issue in public meeting minutes and since then the members of the German foundation have been working to get more of their activities and expenditures publicly documented.

You make points, which are perfectly fine. What is NOT appreciated is the accusatory tone your posts take, where you basically imply that if only we put effort into it, we could satisfy your expectations, and thus implying that we are not putting effort into things, despite knowing very little about what goes on behind the scenes such as the problems I mentioned above. Then there is the fact that if you bothered looking at the minutes of the German meetings, you would notice that in the ones starting in 2012, they actually start breaking down expenses and what the foundation's balance is. A glance at the latest minutes indicates at a high level what expenses the project incurred. Since they are a German registered non-profit, and since they've already had to wrangle with the tax man once because of how anal-retentive the German bureaucracy is, I trust that they have provided sufficient information as to satisfy German legal obligations. If you feel that the above breakdown does not provide enough data, ie you believe that there is value in knowing that oh X euros went to a network card or Y euros went to train fares for travel to conference, then bloody ask the people that are part of the German foundation and do it via their channels. The majority of their board members (much like the majority of the older devs) barely look at the forums anymore to due to the signal/noise ratio and their treasurer I know doesn't pay attention to the forum unless someone directly pokes him about it. So you complaining about what you consider to be lack of detail here is not really going to accomplish anything productive.

As for your wallpaper thread, oldman is effectively correct, when the time comes to prepare a point release the ticket will be acted upon. Until then there's literally nothing to do since there's no release branch to commit them into.
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:Let us go over a couple of pretty simple facts here. The German foundation was established fairly recently in the history of the project and it was only after the German foundation was established that the project began seeing large inflows of donations. Previous expenses were extremely limited because we did not have development contracts and hosting was provided by specific community members with longstanding ties to the project, several of whom nowadays have sys admin roles with us. Then as the German foundation was ramping up and getting enough money to actually contemplate more major expenditures that they would then report publicly, they got hit with a notification from tax authorities that the development contracts they wanted to do might not be legal under German law. That pretty much killed the only major expenditure that they were planning to do, and until they could get the damn tax issues straightened out, there was a great deal of confusion as to what/how they could pay for existing expenses that they were going to take over from the Russian based foundation. This wrangling took nearly two years to straighten out and doing so ate up a considerable amount of time and effort on their part. During that time the German foundation could not talk publicly about the issue until it was resolved but the team internally was kept well briefed as they consulted tax lawyers. After the issue was bypassed, we revealed the existence of the issue in public meeting minutes and since then the members of the German foundation have been working to get more of their activities and expenditures publicly documented.

You make points, which are perfectly fine. What is NOT appreciated is the accusatory tone your posts take, where you basically imply that if only we put effort into it, we could satisfy your expectations, and thus implying that we are not putting effort into things, despite knowing very little about what goes on behind the scenes such as the problems I mentioned above. Then there is the fact that if you bothered looking at the minutes of the German meetings, you would notice that in the ones starting in 2012, they actually start breaking down expenses and what the foundation's balance is. A glance at the latest minutes indicates at a high level what expenses the project incurred. Since they are a German registered non-profit, and since they've already had to wrangle with the tax man once because of how anal-retentive the German bureaucracy is, I trust that they have provided sufficient information as to satisfy German legal obligations. If you feel that the above breakdown does not provide enough data, ie you believe that there is value in knowing that oh X euros went to a network card or Y euros went to train fares for travel to conference, then bloody ask the people that are part of the German foundation and do it via their channels. The majority of their board members (much like the majority of the older devs) barely look at the forums anymore to due to the signal/noise ratio and their treasurer I know doesn't pay attention to the forum unless someone directly pokes him about it. So you complaining about what you consider to be lack of detail here is not really going to accomplish anything productive.
Thanks for giving some feedback. I once more want to point out that the 'accusatory' tone is largely because you interpret it that way. I stated that to publish a balancesheet is pretty simple. And it is. I said the pages upon pages of minutes and irc talks, do not constitute a proper balancesheet. And it doesn't. I also noted that fixing menu-buttons take only half an hour, while here it took 6 months. This is also entirely correct. I mean, I understand you *don't like* that I say it as it is, and I guess it's not smoothtalking things, granted, but those are the facts too. If you read with attention, I did not say 'nobody is doing any effort' (which is what you make of it, I presume), rather I blame it on the internal structure, procedures and the prevailing mentality when decisions have to be made in ROS, aka 'the system'. I also explicitly said and agreed being shorthanded and being volunteers causes delays. Only, I think the latter can not entirely be the sole fact to be blamed for some of the things that takes ages and ages around here. You find that accusatory. I don't. Observing reality and saying as it is, is not accusatory. Quae scribit est.

While you now give an explanation - which is appreciated - for why there has been trouble with tax authorities, this primarily deals with contracts/hiring people. It does NOT, on itself, prohibits making a balancesheet. Let me ask you straight: is there, like in my country, a legal obligation to make a yearly report (balance)? Does that obligation dissipates when there is discussion/trouble with tax-authorities?

I don't know enough of the legal system in Germany, but in my country, problems with the tax authorities does not absolve you from your legal obligations.Which means one should make one each year regardless. So where are they? Certainly now that things seem to have been 'resolved', there is no need to not publish them anymore. All of them. Which leads me to the following proposition, if I'm not being to pushy: why not place all the balancesheets/financial reports in one central place, easy to find and read up on? Surely, you must see the complete inadequacy of providing a bunch of minutes and then say; well, there is a balancesheet to be found somewhere in there. In the spirit of openness and transparency, it seems rather obvious to me, that the financial reports - which one might consider not without importance, after all - are all grouped (per year) in a central place/link/page. and, oh, yes, in English too, not only in German.


Also, while you now act as if things only matter from the ROS foundation onwards...- found in 2009, I believe? - I wonder what happened to the earlier streams of money? Because, while you say there weren't 'large inflows of donations' I do note that as early as 2005 (at the very least; I checked) there were already ways to pay and donate (paypal, for instance). I don't know how big the inflow needs to be in Germany, but even if it was a tenth of the amount we now have, it should have been recorded. *Should*. If that was not done, it's a severe oversight. If not by the organisation, then by the person(s) that handled these things. Persons, as you yourself said, that might well be the sys admins of today. Once again, you may find that accusatory. But is it UNTRUE what I say? Is it even unreasonable? Me thinks not. Generally speaking, a bit of self-contemplation would go far and be of more use than always acting like one is being stung by a bee or rubbed the wrong way.

Surely you can see that, organisational wise, there is much room for improvement?

But anyway, I'm glad to hear things will apparently improve from now on in this regard. I'm looking forward to it. To improve it even further, and to show I'm not all talk, I'm willing to make that 'financial report' page and place it on the site (though I only have rights in the Dutch section) or wiki, or whatever. I guess only from 2012 onwards, if I am to understand correctly. I'll translate it into English, if need be. A few pointers to which minutes that exactly entails would be welcome, for, as I said, wading through dozens of minutes ain't really userfriendly.

As for your wallpaper thread, oldman is effectively correct, when the time comes to prepare a point release the ticket will be acted upon. Until then there's literally nothing to do since there's no release branch to commit them into.
Will be acted upon...and if I'm on vacation during that period, how are you going to get the high-res ones? Do YOU know where to look for? Is anyone else going to 'waste' their time searching for it?

Seen the 'shorthanded' issue, I doubt it. There is also no reason not to decide in front if the wallpapers are acceptable or not. I didn't see you wait for the next release to say the 'slogan-voting' (from another poster) was deemed unsuitable, after all. As I remember, you said it had been brought before the other devs, or brought up during a meeting, or something, and the different winning slogans were weighed and dealt with there and then.

Or am I to understand that the wallpapers are de facto already approved, but only the incorporation needs to be done?

As said, it needs some feedback, and not only 'waiting until the time is there'. Be a bit pro-active. There is nothing stopping you guys from already talking about it now (well, in a meeting) and deciding of which ones you want a high res picture and tell me, so I can provide it.
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by Z98 »

If you do not want to come off as accusatory, choose your words more carefully. Note also that fixing the menu did not take "half an hour," it took the better part of an afternoon untangling it, an afternoon that I needed to actually make free to spend the time needed to fix the problems.

I suppose your expectation of a balancesheet differs from mine. I see a list of costs subtracted from a total sum of reserves, costs that are broken down into major categories. That's the same kind of balance sheet I get as a bill from my utilities and it provides me with the basics of how the foundation spent the money without going into obsessive detail. If you want more details, then, as I have stated previously, talk to the German foundation. You complaining about it on this forum will see absolutely nothing accomplished since the foundation's board members responsible for financial reporting will never see the complaint. As far as its obligations to report its expenses, the only obligation that I am aware of is that it needs to file such reports with the registered government, reports which they filed throughout the time they were registered as a non-profit. The government is then the one with the responsibility to make these reports available upon request. If you believe that there is a further obligation to directly publish these reports, again, ask the German foundation. Posting on this forum, again, will not get your questions to them.

Additional inaccuracies, the German foundation was not founded in 2009. That was the foundation in Russia, which has their own set of obligations and rules, which no longer handles any donation made outside of Russia. Before then there was no non-profit that accepted donations. Donations gathered before 2009 were all rolled into the Russian foundation and the majority of which was further rolled into the German foundation once it was firmly established. And seeing as the very improvements that you think need to occur have effectively occurred with the bookkeeping that the German foundation, including those very same sys admins that rose up through the project's ranks, now handle.

So again, if you think you should be given access to something that you believe the German foundation is legally required to provide, ASK them for it. They have their channels of communication and this forum is NOT one of them. If you choose not to use their provided channels, then your complaints about not having the information you want will be self-inflicted.
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by dizt3mp3r »

Please move all that other stuff to another thread appropriately named. Lets keep this one to the memory manager.

PS. Z98 - You need to start realising that you can often react in a way that appears to be overly aggressive to other posters. Whether they wind you up or not, it is a good idea to simply stop contributing when you find yourself being overly defensive about something. Webunny might be annoying on occasion but he isn't stupid and he makes some points that others might be thinking too.

You chaps need to find a way of backing out before the tone becomes nasty or the thread loses its way. When you have argued with me on a topic I simply stop reading/answering, I click 'ignore' and peace reigns once again as my memory soon deletes any conversation that rates any worse than being slightly annoying.
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Re: Blog: Memory Manager Development

Post by EmuandCo »

dizt3mp3r wrote:Z98 - You need to start realising that you can often react in a way that appears to be overly aggressive to other posters. Whether they wind you up or not, it is a good idea to simply stop contributing when you find yourself being overly defensive about something.
Hey you stole my role as evil cop in here !! ^^ I AM THE ONE REACTING EVIL AND MAD!!!!

OK, time for a last post in here about that OFF TOPIC discussion of absolutely no use and sense!

As member and vice president of the ReactOS Deutschland e.V. I can tell you that all bills are where they belong to, German bureaucracy. All is fine and sober. We made the meeting open and we decided to make a basic balance sheet open too. Both is "in theory" absolutely nothing of your business at all, if we would not care about the community so much. Well, we do, but we wont put open ANY bill for ANY screw we bought. These information are available to members of the foundation, ANY member. Anyways, if you start to put off your accusing and teaching tone, I might even ask our treasurer, if we have something more special for you. Aren't I nice today? And now... I split the topics!
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
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