Blog: Slowly getting closer...

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gonzoMD
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by gonzoMD »

theuserbl wrote: On the Windows Desktop, links to programs (*.LNK-files) have on the left bottom an arrow. On ReactOS with the current explorer by Martin Fuchs, this arrow is on the right bottom. If GUI-design can not be copyrighted, then on ROS the arrow could be instead of the right side on the left bottom, too. Right ?
This is because the icon which places the link arrow is on the right. In my working copy it is on the left as in windows.
theuserbl wrote: And what is with the text in the menubar and toolbar?
In the screenshot, it is the same like in XP.
Can the completely menu (with all separators and every menu-point) be copied?
For example, to close a program you could write "Exit", "Close", "Quit", "Close Program", "Exit Program", "Quit Program", etc. But is it allowed to call every menu entry exactly like Microsoft have done it?
Then internationalization is also no problem. If you can use the english words in the menu, then you can use the different translations for other languages, too.
We do not exactly use the same meu points in every App. On ReactOS many are missing. I think they are there because the target is to implement all functionality which is inside windows shell32 too.
Of course they could also be named different.

gigaherz
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by gigaherz »

As long as you don't copy the icons (which are copyrighted), even if the icon is very similar, copyright doesn't care. It would be a problem if you reproduced the icon pixel by pixel, unless the icon is trivial and does not contain any distinguishing feature, in which case I don't think drawing another icon that looks identical is a problem. But to use your example, there should be absolutely no issue with using a shortcut icon at the left of the icon, as long as that icon isn't copied directly from the Windows one.

Note however, certain icons MAY contain trademarked logos and brands, such as the Windows flag. Those trademarked images must be avoided.

hbelusca
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by hbelusca »

On the game of the 5 differences...

obviously the ReactOS explorer window is the selected one, because (as others already noticed), the correct icon is wrong, there are the menu accelerator letters underlined (but since on windows, they are hidable on app level, not just for explorer, I think one can check what makes explorer_new still showing them), and the fact that the right-most status bar panel is empty. Also the explorer_new window is missing a window entry (precisely the one of the windows'explorer window, but for it I think it's expected). Also some task icons are missing (disk ejection and vmware tools). But strangely enough, the first thing I've noticed was the absence of the ReBar (aka. the moving toolbars) lines delimiters around the whole group of ReBars... (what PurpleGirl noticed, iirc. according to the description). Finally, our "Start" string on the start menu button is slightly shifted to the right, maybe because the reactos logo is too wide ??

@cruonit, it would be a nice idea that wine decides to fully support the tile view. Maybe they have some apps that need it ?

gigaherz
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by gigaherz »

Keep in mind that the menubar in our explorer is using a toolbar. The behaviour of the accelerator keys is something that needs fixing, but a minor issue.

gonzoMD
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by gonzoMD »

hbelusca wrote:it would be a nice idea that wine decides to fully support the tile view. Maybe they have some apps that need it ?
Let's search for them and spam them with bugreports, muahahahaha

justincase
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by justincase »

cruonit wrote:i think the right way would be to write the extension in a bright gray and the filename in black like google does in chrome addressbar (the http part and the GET parameters) or to write it in the details section of the Tile of the LV_VIEW_TILE (it's not implemented in Wine/Reactos !!).
If you're going to change from how Windows does it, I think adding the extension as a permanent text overlay on the icon(s) would be good. Then whether you "show file extensions" (for ease of changing them ;)) or not you will still see them without the possible issues from suddenly giving inexperienced users (used to not having to deal with extensions) renaming them off of their files.
dsp8195 wrote:* File extensions are hidden, so user can only distinguish them by icons.

This is totally NOT a good thing to reimplement, or have you forgot how trojans and viruses were disguising themselves with folder icon extracted from shell32.dll and preventing user from accessing Folder Settings dialog?
I don't remember that specific issue, though I remember others with the same root cause.
This could also be addressed with the text-overlay suggestion I mentioned earlier in this post.
dsp8195 wrote:Even thought it's a vital part of the Windows experience, hiding .lnk extension is not a good idea either, because there are applications which use this extension for their own formats! That means before hiding .lnk's extension, the shell must first check if it's a valid link file, and if it's not - don't hide anything.
I don't get how showing ".lnk" on the end of a file helps if it's not a valid shortcut ("link") file, but if you're worried about file-type/file-extension mismatches perhaps someone could implement a method of recognising files based on a means other than their extension (e.g. "magic number"), however what would be done with such information? you can't just rename someones file, they might have it like that for a reason (maybe some oddball program they use requires it), you can't disallow access because of it (imagine the tech support headaches), I suppose if a text overlay (my earlier suggestion) was implemented it could perhaps change the colour or add an exclamation point or something to the icon, but honestly I don't know.

For the time being however I'm pretty sure the ReactOS team isn't keen on the idea of implementing too many (any?) non-Windows-ish features into ReactOS (just yet).
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

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Black_Fox
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by Black_Fox »

Guys, gigaherz is tasked with reimplementing (parts of) shell32 library from scratch, not create/fix/extend something new. I believe extensions will come, but they're not likely within this contract.
justincase wrote:if you're worried about file-type/file-extension mismatches perhaps someone could implement a method of recognising files based on a means other than their extension (e.g. "magic number"), however what would be done with such information?
Linux uses some bytes from header and from footer of the file to find out the file type. File type is used to select a default opening app, extension is ignored (Windows oppositely uses file extensions for file type detection and doesn't use file contents - usually), for more information you can see file Linux command. It would be a newbie's security nightmare to have switched the behaviours in Windows like that.

florian
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by florian »

I suggest

"name of file in black and changeable . name of extension in grey and not changeable"

as I prefer to see file extensions, too. And don't forget: There's a warning before changing an extension (at least in Win 7).

dsp8195
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by dsp8195 »

I don't get how showing ".lnk" on the end of a file helps
Find your favourite pron video file. Change its extension to .lnk. Now try to change it back with bare Explorer. Good luck.

justincase
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by justincase »

Black_Fox wrote:Linux uses some bytes from header and from footer of the file to find out the file type.
I don't know about any bytes from 'the footer' of the file (could be, I just don't know) but most filetypes have a (somewhat) unique (some share) "magic number" right near the beginning of the file which could be used. However with this not being Windows' behaviour I wouldn't suggest that it be switched it in ReactOS (though warnings of sometype may or may not be a good idea).
Black_Fox wrote:[... speaking of linux ...] File type is used to select a default opening app, extension is ignored (Windows oppositely uses file extensions for file type detection and doesn't use file contents - usually), for more information you can see file Linux command.
I'll have to read the "file" man page soon ;)
Black_Fox wrote:It would be a newbie's security nightmare to have switched the behaviours in Windows like that.
I don't know about a "security nightmare", but it would certainly be confusing (for "newbies"), thus my suggestion that if this gets implemented it only warn the user of mismatches somehow, not actually switch to using detected file-type instead of file-extension.
florian wrote:I suggest
"name of file in black and changeable . name of extension in grey and not changeable"
I think this would be (ooh ooh, now I get to say it) non-trivial (yay!) to implement. ;)
Black_Fox wrote:Guys, gigaherz is tasked with reimplementing (parts of) shell32 library from scratch, not create/fix/extend something new. I believe extensions will come, but they're not likely within this contract.
Hence my saying "I'm pretty sure the ReactOS team isn't keen on the idea of implementing too many (any?) non-Windows-ish features into ReactOS (just yet)".

So back to the topic at hand:
hbelusca wrote:Also some task icons are missing (disk ejection and vmware tools).
This is likely because ReactOS' explorer_new was started after they were already displayed, meaning (if I'm right) that had ReactOS' explorer_new been started first it would have displayed those icons (and also that if Windows' explorer was started afterwards, it [likely] would not show them).
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

PurpleGurl
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by PurpleGurl »

gigaherz wrote:Then you missed the biggest? The addressbar is not implemented yet, so it has no text... ;P
Wow! You're right. Just as an unskilled guess, I bet it is related to one of the other differences I mentioned (the missing "My Computer" in the lower right).

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Black_Fox
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by Black_Fox »

justincase wrote:I don't know about any bytes from 'the footer' of the file (could be, I just don't know) but most filetypes have a (somewhat) unique (some share) "magic number" right near the beginning of the file which could be used.
E.g. PNG files have a "magic" footer as I understood from a website (they also have "magic" header). FreeArc and RAR archives also have some part of header at the end of the file, but I don't know what is present in that part.

EDIT: typo (FreeArc)
Last edited by Black_Fox on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mrugiero
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by mrugiero »

Black_Fox wrote:
justincase wrote:I don't know about any bytes from 'the footer' of the file (could be, I just don't know) but most filetypes have a (somewhat) unique (some share) "magic number" right near the beginning of the file which could be used.
E.g. PNG files have a "magic" footer as I understood from a website (they also have "magic" header). FreArc and RAR archives also have some part of header at the end of the file, but I don't know what is present in that part.
If I got it right, in UNIX-likes the way to know the format of a file is by reading this first bytes. I'm not sure, as that's something I just guessed long time ago after it automatically, and consistently, knew what some files were disregarding the missing extension in the filename. I always call it a signature or a header, but I ignore if that's the official name for it.

justincase
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by justincase »

Black_Fox wrote:E.g. PNG files have a "magic" footer as I understood from a website (they also have "magic" header). FreeArc and RAR archives also have some part of header at the end of the file, but I don't know what is present in that part.
I've always recognised PNG files based on their starting with a "magic number" (specifically "‰PNG"; another easy to remember one is PDF's '%PDF-[version#]').
This does however present a problem for file types such as Java "jar"s & Microsoft's "Office Open XML" format(s) (.docx, .pptx, .xlsx, etc?), because their format is (literally) based on zip archives, so they start with the same "magic number" (PK), so I suppose you could use other parts of each files spec to tell you what it is (e.g. looking for a java manifest file in the zip archive to see if it's a jar? IDK if that's a good example or not)

AND THE SUBJECT AT HAND:
PurpleGurl wrote:... The third difference ... was the missing "shadow" or line to the right of the toolbar and the address bar.
hbelusca wrote:... the first thing I've noticed was the absence of the ReBar (aka. the moving toolbars) lines delimiters around the whole group of ReBars... (what PurpleGirl noticed, iirc. according to the description).
Yeah, I'm pretty sure by the descriptions that you're talking about the same thing, PurpleGurl noticed one line (/set of lines), hbelusca noticed the others (of the same purpose).
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

Alahndro
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Re: Blog: Slowly getting closer...

Post by Alahndro »

The question that botheres me the most is:

Will Coloumn Providers work?

The most important ones that i miss from xp-era are "Foldersize" and "Extension". With the latter you can hide the extensions at the filename and instead display them in a dedicated coloum and even sort them. The standard "Type" is just not the same, as many extensions often share the same type.

And there are many more for sure (Audioshell, Special Tags etc.)

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