Why is it taking so long?

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Black_Fox
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Black_Fox » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:52 pm

Z98 wrote:You do realize that whatever Black_Fox said would only be speculation? Seeing as he's not a developer?
Exactly.
I just watch forums, wiki, FB/Twitter, public mailing lists and commit messages -> everybody of us has access to those, I try to speculate based on that available information. Therefore you know as much as I know, mametoc :)
I see that currently the goal of compatibility with Windows Server 2003 SP1 is current, because bump to SP2 was reverted, so I speculated that any move beyond that is not wished for at this moment. I could speculate more, but I'm afraid that the rumours would spread and harm the project in short term.
I don't know what surprises the ROS team prepares right now, so I stay tuned as the page title says :)

laurflorin
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by laurflorin » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:30 am

I guess that all of us wish that the project doesn't fall too far behind so as to be rendered useless in the future.
I am sure it's hard, based on how many resources ReactOS has (vs Microsoft). However, the harsh truth is that
ReactOS will become more and more outdated as time passes by. It will always be a great project, but it will never
reach mainstream and consumers at this pace, realistically speaking. Unless there is a great idea/goal behind the
"stay tuned" message. I am looking forward to it ;)
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Webunny
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Webunny » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:35 am

mametoc wrote:
Webunny wrote:True. Sooner or later, ROS will HAVE to go beyond the 2003/XP goal. I would strongly suggest setting the next goal to win7, when the time comes. As for the one after that; we'll see.
Well WIndows 7/Windows Server 2012 seems too much ambitous by now, isn't?, why not Windows Server 2008/Vista? (i know Vista as a co-goal can generate very bad PR).

Anyway whit a new goal... the drivers think seems will be a mess what generate some questions as: No longer progress whit XP/2003 drivers to get run on ReactOS?, all driver target turns to 2008/Vista? that's the end way for some very old hardware to run next ReactOS target whitout Vista/2008 or later drivers?. Probably there are more thinks (not related to drivers) i don't know but the next target seems to me a monstrous jump what might even justify change the name "ReactOS" to other, to avoid confusion.
I've had this discussion before, with z98, I think. While I'm not saying it won't involve some work and it will still take some time, I don't find it logical to assume it would take more time and work to go from scratch to winxp, than from winXP to Win7. Where you first have completely nothing and really have to start from scratch and build EVERYTHING up from the ground up, you can now build from a basis you already have, and where you had almost NO experience in creating and writing code for a Windows-clone, you now have already considerable expertise. For both these matters, thus, you have some headway and have an advantage you didn't have when one started the project, and hence, it will take less time. I don't think, thus, that going from XP to win7 is any more ambitious than it was for going from scratch to winXP.

As for windows Vista (and windows 8): while I'm sure some level of compatibility for those will be brought in too - especially if it's still there in win7 too - they are, alas, far less suited from a PR-standpoint. In short, they are not popular at all - at least, generally speaking, they are far less popular with the masses than XP or win7. So, if you're going to 'officially' pronounce a new goal after XP, you'd better set a popular goal than an unpopular goal, that much should be obvious.

Could be, of course, that by the time we get there, it's already win9, and maybe that one will be hugely popular as well and could be taken for the next goal (speak of ambition, then! ;-)) But, as far as the current Windows iterations are concerned, I think the only viable option for a next goal, certainly also from a PR perspective, is win7. Which doesn't mean that under the hood there can't be added some compatibility with Vista and win8 as well, it's just not a smart move to say your next official goal is an unpopular OS. And of course, it's quite possible we'll be doing a better job than MS, and actually let you choose a theme and GUI identical to XP, so you won't notice the difference in a visible way for those that want to keep it 'XP-like'.

erkinalp
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by erkinalp » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:57 am

Webunny wrote:actually let you choose a theme and GUI identical to XP
Remember we are not Windows, we are binary(at least API and ABI-wise) an userland-wise compatible with Windows. Making an identical-looking theme will make users confused by thinking ReactOS being a project of Microsoft :evil: Even 99.99%(imposible to reach 100% because of impossible-to-know obscurities) compatibility does not mean we are Windows, which is actually false. We are Windows-like Windows NT compatible OS, not Windows itself.
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The_French_Rat
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by The_French_Rat » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:13 pm

erkinalp wrote:
Webunny wrote:actually let you choose a theme and GUI identical to XP
Remember we are not Windows, we are binary(at least API and ABI-wise) an userland-wise compatible with Windows. Making an identical-looking theme will make users confused by thinking ReactOS being a project of Microsoft :evil: Even 99.99%(imposible to reach 100% because of impossible-to-know obscurities) compatibility does not mean we are Windows, which is actually false. We are Windows-like Windows NT compatible OS, not Windows itself.
Touché. :ugeek:
Just think of ReactOS as the XP beta, Whistler.

Webunny
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Webunny » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:19 pm

erkinalp wrote:
Webunny wrote:actually let you choose a theme and GUI identical to XP
Remember we are not Windows, we are binary(at least API and ABI-wise) an userland-wise compatible with Windows. Making an identical-looking theme will make users confused by thinking ReactOS being a project of Microsoft :evil: Even 99.99%(imposible to reach 100% because of impossible-to-know obscurities) compatibility does not mean we are Windows, which is actually false. We are Windows-like Windows NT compatible OS, not Windows itself.
I'll be more precise and say "an identical FEEL of XP", then.

I thought this would be clear. No-one was suggesting using copyrighted material. And is there any user here who really confounds Reactos with MS, as if they would be one and the same company? I don't think so. It's another name, another logo, and it's more than once explicitly said what and who we are. I don't think that anyone apart from the complete idiotic nitwit would fail to note that ROS ain't MS. What people *will* be looking for, however, is high compatibility and it having the same 'feel' as they're used to with their favourite OS, be it winXP or win7, and obviously, that will include the visual style and the layout as well.

erkinalp
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by erkinalp » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:43 pm

I have never heard of any API/ABI which relies on artwork to function.
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Webunny
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Webunny » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:31 pm

erkinalp wrote:I have never heard of any API/ABI which relies on artwork to function.
I have never even taken the words API/ABI in my mouth in this thread. I think you did. Let alone claim they rely on artwork to function. I'm not sure if it was meant as a response to my posts or more as a general remark, but it seems not really relevant to what I was saying.

I said it could still be made to look and feel as an XP for those who wanted it, even if we set our goal higher to win7, in the future. In fact, windows Vista and win7 already allow that to do, to some extent. Only, since it's open source and we can adapt it as we see fit, we could potentially do it better. And as said, apart from (very) similar behaviour (where API/ABI comes into play), this will involve the visual style and layout as well. All aspects could be readily adapted in ROS to give the experience users want, in a more thorough way than MS currently does.

For the conservative enduser, after all, it doesn't really matter what happens under the hood, as long as it feels and looks the same as he's used to.

fred02
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by fred02 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:34 pm

Z98 wrote:Or we could go for 8 without the braindead UI for desktops.
Indeed. I understand that most common users are associating UI=OS, but those interested in a new alpha OS should try to be more educated. It is not really that hard, since various Classic Shell/Start8/etc. have been covered a lot by the media. Or read ROS news. :)
DOSGuy wrote:It would be like if a group of hobbyists decided to recreate the Apollo program using only publicly available blueprints and specs.
Excellent comparison :!: Can I put it in my signature?
Or I can use it for a motivator:
ROS: it is like recreating the Apollo program using only publicly available blueprints and specs.
:lol:

mametoc
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by mametoc » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:48 pm

Webunny wrote: I've had this discussion before, with z98, I think. While I'm not saying it won't involve some work and it will still take some time, I don't find it logical to assume it would take more time and work to go from scratch to winxp, than from winXP to Win7. Where you first have completely nothing and really have to start from scratch and build EVERYTHING up from the ground up, you can now build from a basis you already have, and where you had almost NO experience in creating and writing code for a Windows-clone, you now have already considerable expertise. For both these matters, thus, you have some headway and have an advantage you didn't have when one started the project, and hence, it will take less time. I don't think, thus, that going from XP to win7 is any more ambitious than it was for going from scratch to winXP.
Well based in current ReactOS state, off course a Vista is still an ambitous target so a "seven" target is even more ambitous (more complex).
Last edited by mametoc on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Z98
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Z98 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:49 pm

There's no difference between Vista and 2k8. They're the same kernel.

mametoc
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by mametoc » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:04 pm

Edited, sorry.

Zc456
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Zc456 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:14 am

happy1460 wrote:And Linux is plain and ancient looking.
*cough*Android*cough* Anyway, Linux is hardly plain or ancident looking. Mostly depends on the GUI or if you're just at the shell. Problem I have is that it's not as simple as simply dragging and dropping so-and-so EXE to your desktop or Program Files and firing it up. Hell, even Start Menu entries are easier on Windows/NT-based machines. I mean, yes, you can do the former with any machine but heaven forbid you want to it a global menu entry on Linux.
Stay frosty, Squeaks.

zydon
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by zydon » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:03 pm

I don't care what ROS look like or what it's GUI made of. As long as it works seamlessly with win32 apps, drivers and connectivity, it's all I need. Users always can put other GUI theme as they like. But the working core is everyone waiting for so long. Doesn't matter what architecture drive them, as long as they are compatible with win32 apps environment and running efficiently or better than Windows OS, it's covered everything peoples need.

Fix those file manager (Explorer) library as the main priority, people wouldn't complain much how long this OS will be completed. If those libraries doesn't fixed, other file manager too doesn't work in managing the information storage.

Keep focusing on the core of the OS, anything else will came along pretty quick too.

EmuandCo
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by EmuandCo » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:09 am

Thats what we do. Never wondered why no dev replies to the look and eye candy posts?
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

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