GRUB as the primary bootloader

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erkinalp
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GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by erkinalp »

ReactOS now provides FreeLDR as its bootloader. GRUB is much more flexible and scriptable and can also boot FreeLDR which is a multiboot compliant boot manager. I suggest altering the default behavior:
-Install GRUB into MBR/GPT/another known disklabel. Generate a grub.cfg including all detected OSes and FreeLDR.
-Modify FreeLDR so that it accepts arguments string for its invocation. It will be used for booting the ReactOS' kernel directly via FreeLDR eliminating the need for extra configuration file FreeLDR.ini(continue supporting the former way).
-uses Ubuntu+GNOME 3 GNU/Linux
-likes Free (as in freedom) and Open Source Detergents
-favors open source of Windows 10 under GPL2

manuel
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by manuel »

+1

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EmuandCo
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by EmuandCo »

Now? Its that way since.... forever?
You can't just kick in grub and let it do the needed configuration and additionally I dont see any reason to do so. FreeLDR is needed as its a mandatory component of ReactOS, such as WinLDR is for Windows. We dont just link in another external component into our tree, which has to be maintained just for nothing useful added.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

mrugiero
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by mrugiero »

EmuandCo wrote:Now? Its that way since.... forever?
You can't just kick in grub and let it do the needed configuration and additionally I dont see any reason to do so. FreeLDR is needed as its a mandatory component of ReactOS, such as WinLDR is for Windows. We dont just link in another external component into our tree, which has to be maintained just for nothing useful added.
Agree. All the support that is actually needed is to not step over an existing GRUB, and ReactOS already gives you the option to avoid that.

manuel
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by manuel »

and exists a possibility to modify the appearance of freeloader to be similar to grub and not be very similar to windows boot?, greetings.

hbelusca
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by hbelusca »

I still cannot understand why so many people STILL WANT to imitate GNU things (GRUB, Linux etc...) in the internals for making a NT OS clone. As if they still didn't understand the idea behind the ReactOS project.
And it's clear that the project doesn't want to be a YAGNULLOS (Yet Another GNU/Linux-Looking OS; by GNU/Linux-looking I mean yet another OS which uses GRUB or Lilo for booting, and uses Linux-inspired ideas in the most general sense). :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Because those people try to convert a OS monopoly (Windows) to another one (GNU/Linux and consorts). And that's not good. Some diversity (e.g. not having only GRUB as the only available bootloader, ...) is needed.
manuel wrote:and exists a possibility to modify the appearance of freeloader to be similar to grub and not be very similar to windows boot?, greetings.
Why? Because the "look&feel" of GRUB is better? Then check for the different display possibilities in FreeLdr (read and test: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trun ... iew=markup just to know what I mean).

And, just saying that, FreeLdr can boot Linux too...

Disclaimer: This is only my personal point of view, not the official one.

erkinalp
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by erkinalp »

GRUB can boot almost everything from NTLDR to Linux, to XNU, to BSD, to self-withstanding utilities. FreeLDR can just boot Windows NT, ReactOS, Linux and multiboot.
Actually implementing GRUB module and CL argument support will contribute to GRUB functionality, we will be first to implement a Windows kernel support for GRUB(remember GRUB2 already supports NTLDR via an extension module).
I wish I could do that in GRUB 2:

Code: Select all

menuentry ReactOS {
set root=(hd0,gpt1)
insmod reactos
reactos /ReactOS/SysWoW64/ntoskrnl.exe /safeboot /minimal
}
-uses Ubuntu+GNOME 3 GNU/Linux
-likes Free (as in freedom) and Open Source Detergents
-favors open source of Windows 10 under GPL2

manuel
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by manuel »

hbelusca wrote:I still cannot understand why so many people STILL WANT to imitate GNU things (GRUB, Linux etc...) in the internals for making a NT OS clone. As if they still didn't understand the idea behind the ReactOS project.
but do not be angry, it is only a suggestion, if you want to continue with free loader is ok, there is no need to get angry, greetings ;) .

hbelusca
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by hbelusca »

manuel wrote:
hbelusca wrote:I still cannot understand why so many people STILL WANT to imitate GNU things (GRUB, Linux etc...) in the internals for making a NT OS clone. As if they still didn't understand the idea behind the ReactOS project.
but do not be angry, it is only a suggestion, if you want to continue with free loader is ok, there is no need to get angry, greetings ;) .
Yeah, just that the suggestion was obviously biased.

hbelusca
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by hbelusca »

erkinalp wrote:GRUB can boot almost everything from NTLDR to Linux, to XNU, to BSD, to self-withstanding utilities. FreeLDR can just boot Windows NT, ReactOS, Linux and multiboot.
Actually implementing GRUB module and CL argument support will contribute to GRUB functionality, we will be first to implement a Windows kernel support for GRUB(remember GRUB2 already supports NTLDR via an extension module).
I wish I could do that in GRUB 2:

Code: Select all

menuentry ReactOS {
set root=(hd0,gpt1)
insmod reactos
reactos /ReactOS/SysWoW64/ntoskrnl.exe /safeboot /minimal
}
Isn't it already possible to do that? (according to: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2#MSDOS.2FWindows )

Something like:

Code: Select all

menuentry "ReactOS" {
     insmod part_msdos
     insmod ntldr
     insmod ntfs
     ntldr (hd0,msdos1)/freeldr
}
(or freeldr.sys if it's the real file name) (I suppose that here "ntldr" is a command, and the "(hd0,msdos1)/ntldr" corresponds to the actual boot loader file) (and OK, the "insmod ntfs" may not be relevant for ReactOS at this point...).

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Black_Fox
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by Black_Fox »

erkinalp wrote:ReactOS now provides FreeLDR as its bootloader(...)
EmuandCo wrote:Now? Its that way since.... forever?
I think he meant "now" as in "currently" :-) Sorry for being late to the party.

Z98
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by Z98 »

To call grub a "bootloader" is overly generous. It is more correctly a "bootstrapper." FreeLDR/NTLDR does a lot of initial setup and configuration checks before handing things over to the kernel, all of which are specific to NT. Linux doesn't need any of this stuff and such grub does not have the infrastructure for it. To give grub that infrastructure, we'd have to effectively turn it into freeldr, which I'm pretty sure the grub devs would object to.

erkinalp
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by erkinalp »

Z98 wrote:FreeLDR/NTLDR does a lot of initial setup and configuration checks before handing things over to the kernel, all of which are specific to NT.To give grub that infrastructure, we'd have to effectively turn it into freeldr, which I'm pretty sure the grub devs would object to.
No, all can fit in a single module. So no changes needed to grub. Checks will be done by GRUB ReactOS loader(which will load the kernel specified by the argument string and be our own module written for GRUB2), not by GRUB core.
-uses Ubuntu+GNOME 3 GNU/Linux
-likes Free (as in freedom) and Open Source Detergents
-favors open source of Windows 10 under GPL2

mrugiero
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by mrugiero »

erkinalp wrote:GRUB can boot almost everything from NTLDR to Linux, to XNU, to BSD, to self-withstanding utilities. FreeLDR can just boot Windows NT, ReactOS, Linux and multiboot.
Actually implementing GRUB module and CL argument support will contribute to GRUB functionality, we will be first to implement a Windows kernel support for GRUB(remember GRUB2 already supports NTLDR via an extension module).
I wish I could do that in GRUB 2:

Code: Select all

menuentry ReactOS {
set root=(hd0,gpt1)
insmod reactos
reactos /ReactOS/SysWoW64/ntoskrnl.exe /safeboot /minimal
}
This is out of the scope of ReactOS. If you want GRUB2 to support booting the ReactOS kernel, then suggest that to GRUB developers.
hbelusca wrote: Because those people try to convert a OS monopoly (Windows) to another one (GNU/Linux and consorts). And that's not good. Some diversity (e.g. not having only GRUB as the only available bootloader, ...) is needed.
That's not necessarily true. From a support point of view, it's easier to have a single platform to support than to have several. But again, someone with a dual boot is telling :p

fred02
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Re: GRUB as the primary bootloader

Post by fred02 »

mrugiero wrote:
hbelusca wrote: Because those people try to convert a OS monopoly (Windows) to another one (GNU/Linux and consorts). And that's not good. Some diversity (e.g. not having only GRUB as the only available bootloader, ...) is needed.
That's not necessarily true. From a support point of view, it's easier to have a single platform to support than to have several. But again, someone with a dual boot is telling :p
Monoculture is usually beneficial on the short/mid runs, but deleterious and disastrous on the long run: http://blog.mozilla.org/sfink/2013/02/1 ... -the-game/

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