[Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

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hbelusca
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by hbelusca »

We already have Coverity ;)

Aeneas
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by Aeneas »

Is there really anything speaking against "borrowing the tool for a while"?

Yes, I know it is "not charming, because it is not OSS", but on the other hand, arrangements could be discussed:

1. Even ONE thorough test could bring significant improvements;

2. a co-operation in the future might be discussed, e.g.

a) you use the tool only if the community pays for it; or

b) they agree to give it to you for free in the future as well, because ReactOS would be a great advertisement for THEM - "look what nice OS they made by using our tool". - Because their corporate customers will most likely not allow them such advertisements due to NDAs; after all, if you need such a tool, it means that you produce buggy software - and this is a simple fact that some management cannot accept nonetheless.

3. You do not use OSS for EVERYTHING, do you? You most likely have no clue about the microcode that translates CISC CPU-instructions to RISC-subinstructions in your x86-class processor. You most likely have no clue about your BIOS or your graphics drivers, and those of you who develop on Windows and not on Linux really should not complain... ;)

4. What speaks AGAINST that tool: as with every proprietary software, the personal investment of time. You will become "dependent" on it, if you use it for longer time, and that might be undesirable.

milon
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by milon »

Z98 wrote:Note the "for a while" part. There was some contact in the past, but the price they proposed was at levels of corporate licensing.
I don't see anywhere how long "for a while" is. Also, I suspect they want some kind of agreement that after using it free "for a while" we'll then use it not-free "for a while". I could be wrong, but that's what I read between the lines.

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Black_Fox
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by Black_Fox »

hbelusca wrote:We already have Coverity ;)
If there is Coverity, I'd like to ask how could PVS-Studio find such "trivial" bugs? :) I don't mean to be negative, I'm just interested if these two have separate detection sets or if it's the lack of manpower that causes some of the bugs to persist.

hbelusca
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by hbelusca »

Black_Fox wrote:
hbelusca wrote:We already have Coverity ;)
If there is Coverity, I'd like to ask how could PVS-Studio find such "trivial" bugs? :) I don't mean to be negative, I'm just interested if these two have separate detection sets or if it's the lack of manpower that causes some of the bugs to persist.
It's maybe because we don't have a look at it too regularly...

But for instance, here is some work I did with the help of Coverity:
http://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-6681

fred02
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by fred02 »

Aeneas wrote:Is there really anything speaking against "borrowing the tool for a while"?

Yes, I know it is "not charming, because it is not OSS", but on the other hand, arrangements could be discussed:

1. Even ONE thorough test could bring significant improvements;

2. a co-operation in the future might be discussed, e.g.
As Z98 said above, it was tried, but found unacceptable due to prohibitive pricing scheme. I also have a vague memory of fireball not being so enthusiastic about the results produced, but then the tool may have improved.
Aeneas wrote:a) you use the tool only if the community pays for it; or
That's an interesting suggestion. A community funded development tool. If it is a one time payment it can work. If it is some sort of per year licence, it will be more difficult, since one will have to secure the funding each year. But anyway I'd say it worth PMing vicmarcal with the idea. (Unless it has already been discussed, and Z98 will answer with a single "NO" a couple of posts below :) )
Aeneas wrote:b) they agree to give it to you for free in the future as well, because ReactOS would be a great advertisement for THEM - "look what nice OS they made by using our tool". - Because their corporate customers will most likely not allow them such advertisements due to NDAs;
Even for an FOSS project, such "advertisement" arrangements should not be taken lightly. One must carefully examine all the implications.
Note that I'm not against it. I would even say that at the current level of ROS "visibility" and "market penetration" it can actually benefit from this extra exposure.
Aeneas wrote:3. You do not use OSS for EVERYTHING, do you? You most likely have no clue about the microcode that translates CISC CPU-instructions to RISC-subinstructions in your x86-class processor. You most likely have no clue about your BIOS or your graphics drivers,
With Bochs you can ;), but this is going off-topic.
Aeneas wrote:4. What speaks AGAINST that tool: as with every proprietary software, the personal investment of time. You will become "dependent" on it, if you use it for longer time, and that might be undesirable.
True. Remember BitKeeper and Linux?
That's why one have to be very careful when endorsing such tools.

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Black_Fox
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by Black_Fox »

hbelusca wrote:It's maybe because we don't have a look at it too regularly...

But for instance, here is some work I did with the help of Coverity:
http://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-6681
Cool, thanks for the info! Maybe vicmarcal will begin with some fixes based on the provided logs, he seems very keen about this kind of patches.

vicmarcal
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by vicmarcal »

http://jira.reactos.org/issues/?jql=rep ... ate%20DESC
Black_Fox wrote:
hbelusca wrote:It's maybe because we don't have a look at it too regularly...

But for instance, here is some work I did with the help of Coverity:
http://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-6681
Cool, thanks for the info! Maybe vicmarcal will begin with some fixes based on the provided logs, he seems very keen about this kind of patches.
Yeah, I have created several patches and opened several bug reports in Jira. I have analyzed more than 500 tests already. There are a lot of false positives due to debugging but I found and created several patches in our Jira.
Also a lot of these bugs are Wine related, we can't fix them in our side because in the next sync these fixes will get lost. So I decided to checkout wine git repository and created patches which has been sent to wine.
I have sent already 6 patches to wine, 5 accepted, 1 superseeded:
http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/? ... ctor+&sr=1
http://source.winehq.org/patches/
Also I fixed a bug in Uniata which has been accepted by Alter(Uniata creator)
Btw, a lot of the bugs have been fixed after some syncs(the PVS test was run in an old revision)
There is a lot more work to be done but slowly progressing ;)
I will keep you updated!
Last edited by vicmarcal on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: hto and fred help and corrections going into :)

vicmarcal
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by vicmarcal »

Black_Fox wrote:
hbelusca wrote:We already have Coverity ;)
If there is Coverity, I'd like to ask how could PVS-Studio find such "trivial" bugs? :) I don't mean to be negative, I'm just interested if these two have separate detection sets or if it's the lack of manpower that causes some of the bugs to persist.
There are several reasons:
1) PVS is less powerful than Coverity nowadays. This means that Coverity shows tons of problems and because this high amount of details they go unnoticed.Coverity log is 20 times konger than a full Pvs one. So PVS being so basic is a good point to find them easier.In the other hand PVS still have a lot of false positives.
2)Manpower.As you know manpower is always a lack. A normal Reactos tester can fix a lot of the issues revealed by the PVS analysis.:)

vicmarcal
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by vicmarcal »

fred02 wrote:
Aeneas wrote:a) you use the tool only if the community pays for it; or
That's an interesting suggestion. A community funded development tool. If it is a one time payment it can work. If it is some sort of per year licence, it will be more difficult, since one will have to secure the funding each year. But anyway I'd say it worth PMing vicmarcal with the idea. (Unless it has already been discussed, and Z98 will answer with a single "NO" a couple of posts below :) )
Aeneas wrote:b) they agree to give it to you for free in the future as well, because ReactOS would be a great advertisement for THEM - "look what nice OS they made by using our tool". - Because their corporate customers will most likely not allow them such advertisements due to NDAs;
Even for an FOSS project, such "advertisement" arrangements should not be taken lightly. One must carefully examine all the implications.
Note that I'm not against it. I would even say that at the current level of ROS "visibility" and "market penetration" it can actually benefit from this extra exposure.
.
Accordingly to their licenses,there is a yearly renewal.
I prefer fundraisings focused in hiring devs that in paying a license of this kind.
Right now we are using Coverity, which is a great tool and totally for free. I am sure Coverity has learnt a lot from our false positives and we have contributed to make their tool better.
Usually Static and Dynamic tools offers free licenses to opensource projects:In one hand because the opensource project makes advertising of the tool and also because as the projects are opensourced they learn a lot to reduce false positives.
I wont mind about using PVS but it would be a pity to get used to a tool that we wont be able to pay.
:(

hto
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Post by hto »

No, it shows bugs Reported by Me, i.e., by the user currently logged in, not by vicmarcal. Your bugs are here.

Z98
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Re: [Official]Testing request to the ReactOS Community

Post by Z98 »


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