OpenGL & DirectX (ReactX) (split).

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Floyd
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Post by Floyd » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:05 am

TiKu wrote:
Davethewave wrote:I've tried learning languages but the best I ever got was VB...which I always hear is not a good one to go with.
The language you are using doesn't reveal much about your skills. I've been programming in VB5/6 for 7 years before I switched to C++ (because classic VB wasn't developed anymore and .net has not yet been convincing enough). In this time I was able to help C/C++ programmers uncountable times (and I do not only mean beginners;)). Of course they also helped me a lot.
i know basic vb.net coding and php coding; but i want to be an opengl programmer that makes tactical games like final fantasy and vandal hearts. my college sucks for cs stuff and rarely teach a c/c++ class and the closest thing to helping with games is the alogrithm class (did i spell that right)? what would you recommend for learning games?
;-)
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TiKu
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Post by TiKu » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:16 am

Floyd wrote:i know basic vb.net coding and php coding; but i want to be an opengl programmer that makes tactical games like final fantasy and vandal hearts. my college sucks for cs stuff and rarely teach a c/c++ class and the closest thing to helping with games is the alogrithm class (did i spell that right)? what would you recommend for learning games?
;-)
In this situation it may be a good idea to buy some good books about OpenGL and C++, C# or VB.net (whatever you prefer - OpenGL can be used with .net via TAO) and learn on your own.

Jaix
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OpenGL or DirectX (ReactX)

Post by Jaix » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:46 am

Floyd wrote:I know basic vb.net coding and php coding; but I want to be an OpenGL programmer that makes tactical games like final fantasy and vandal hearts... ...What would you recommend for learning games?
;-)
In ReactOS we will have a DirectX-clone (ReactX or what ever we will call it) why not aim for this rather then OpenGL?

MarOrt
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Re: OpenGL or DirectX (ReactX)

Post by MarOrt » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:12 am

[/quote]
In ReactOS we will have a DirectX-clone (ReactX or what ever we will call it) why not aim for this rather then OpenGL?[/quote]
Dear Jaix, bringing the subject back on faster development of ReactOS ;-), why bother with programming an DirectX alternative? I presume that whoever needs DirectX for a program or game, may legally install it on ReactOS or do gamedevelopers have a EULA which prohibit non-Windows users of installing the DirectX from the game CD/DVD?

Floyd
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Re: OpenGL or DirectX (ReactX)

Post by Floyd » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:25 pm

Jaix wrote:
Floyd wrote:I know basic vb.net coding and php coding; but I want to be an OpenGL programmer that makes tactical games like final fantasy and vandal hearts... ...What would you recommend for learning games?
;-)
In ReactOS we will have a DirectX-clone (ReactX or what ever we will call it) why not aim for this rather then OpenGL?
I think we should shoot for OpenGL personally, as it is cross platform and there is tons of code out there to implement it.
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Lucractius
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Post by Lucractius » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:53 am

OpenGL

#1 its open :P
#2 its been designed to be portable
#3 MS just shot their own feet off in the OpenGL area with their plans for Vista.
#4 its BETTER (imho)
#5 DirectX is a complete system incorporating numerous APIs for different hardware such as input devices, sound, 3d accelleration, network, etc. Implementing these to spec may mean having to make MANY bad choises in areas Reactos can greatly improve compared to Windows, just to maintain parity with DX

If were going to make wndows were gonna need SOME kind of DirectX layer... unfortunatly.

Id say we do the exact reverse of what MS are doing. Theyre Making OpenGL a wrapper for DirectX. We make DirectX a wrapper for OpenGL, OpenAL, and whatever else we need. I know theres already a project (and probably more and efforts in unlikely places [quite possibly Wine code would help a ton for this] )

OpenGL is where the Serious 3d people work. if microsoft half ass with them, reactos will be a Very attractive alternative platform that provides the full opengl support they desire.

I do think though that since were going for binary compatibility and are working with the wine team then were likely to just wind up with a DirectX compatible Interface layer somehow or other. eithre as a wraper or natively accessing the hardware.

Id just preffer if instead of playing second fiddle to MS and their consistant pushing of proprietary standards to maintain market share (DirectX has a stranglehold on gamers and HAS crippled the ability of small ro medium companies to think about gaming on linux despide it being able to deliver better performance for their customers in some areas [ not starting a flame war on this, just saying in context] ) we touted full OpenGL/AL first before saying were "also" totaly compatible with DX

Jaix
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DirectX already in ROS

Post by Jaix » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 pm

Let me clarify just a bit, ReactOS already have a working DirectX and one of the developers says this in another thread...
GreatLord wrote:Hi

Blight_ have made icd interface for opengl in reactos I think it was already in release 0.2.5 or 0.2.6.

Some fact about DirectX

1. Wine DirectX layer for ddraw / D3D will not working in windows or reactos.

2. Wine DirectX ddraw / D3D is bound to wine3d lib then
it is bound to X11 and linux opengl drv.

3. Wine DirectX using shourtcut how directx works and is base on windows 98 design

4. Hardware manufactor some are building there opengl drv on DirectX

5. Microsoft will remove the opengl icd interface in longhorn/vista and opengl must be a warper on directx if u want hardware acclartion

That is some reason why ReactOS refuse implement ddraw and d3d on opengl.

florian
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Post by florian » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:03 pm

Couldn`t we separate the directX-opengl discussion from the Faster development of ros proposal? It would make sense because it is a little bit off-topic but an interesting one which should deserve it. (proposal). :lol

Jaix
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No more OpenGL in this thread...

Post by Jaix » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:32 pm

florian wrote:Couldn`t we separate the directX-opengl discussion from the Faster development of ros proposal? It would make sense because it is a little bit off-topic but an interesting one which should deserve it. (proposal). :lol
I was more like thinking about this is the end of this opengl-directx branch diskussion, so we'd better go back to the trunk: "Faster development of ReactOS... (proposal)". There is a lot of OpenGL and DirectX discussions already. More discussions about these subjects should be directed to these therads. My first question to Floyd was just to encourae him to go with what we already have not to start an OpenGL war inside this thread. I could split this thread in two but I don't want to start more OpenGl threads when we already got heaps of them. Use the search function if you want to fint discussions in these subjects. Keywords: OpenGL, DirectX, ReactX Reactive-X

florian
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Post by florian » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:56 pm

Then I shouldn`t have commented that because I just browsed too quickly and I am not interested in directX etc. so I didn`t followed previous discussions. So again, sorry for my remarks.

Floyd
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Re: No more OpenGL in this thread...

Post by Floyd » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:58 pm

Jaix wrote:.... My first question to Floyd was just to encourae him to go with what we already have not to start an OpenGL war inside this thread. I could split this thread in two but I don't want to start more OpenGl threads when we already got heaps of them. Use the search function if you want to fint discussions in these subjects. Keywords: OpenGL, DirectX, ReactX Reactive-X
I'm not trying to start any thread wars.

DirectX will have to be supported on some level simply because it's in Windows, but no, OpenGL is awesome and it's cross platform and still used (will allow other apps to be ported to Windows/React quicker). And just because Microsoft is pushing their renderer over OpenGL does not make OpenGL inferior.

I'm just saying to dump OpenGL would be a mistake IMO. I'm not necessarily saying we dump DirectX either, as things like DirectSound, DirectInput and DirectPlay (i think that's what it's called) are very useful. But as far as renderers go I would rather see an OpenGL wrapper to DirectX/Draw calls because it is quite capable and open source. DirectX is well documented too, but I think it's almost shameful to neglect OpenGL.
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Wierd
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Post by Wierd » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:42 pm

OpenGL is cool and all, but it is a rather outdated spec-- Many modern GPU features are supported only through 3rd party 'extentions', which poses a problem for trying to wrap DirectX functionality into OpenGL instructions reliably and consistantly.

Really, the "Best" solution is to have native OpenGL, and our own DirectX implementation running side-by-side.

Jaix
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Split from "Faster development of ReactOS... (proposal)

Post by Jaix » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:19 pm

Split from "Faster development of ReactOS... (proposal)"

This thread started as a branch that "took over" the subject in the mentioned thread, despite tries to get the thread back on track again it didn't, so I thought it was better to split the forum up in two.

Keep to the subject now!

Floyd
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Post by Floyd » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:20 pm

Wierd wrote:OpenGL is cool and all, but it is a rather outdated spec-- Many modern GPU features are supported only through 3rd party 'extentions', which poses a problem for trying to wrap DirectX functionality into OpenGL instructions reliably and consistantly.

Really, the "Best" solution is to have native OpenGL, and our own DirectX implementation running side-by-side.
when you consider a lot of video cards only recently supported the 1.5 spec and most only support 1.3, (when 2.0 is out), it's easy to think that OpenGL is "outdated". but feature-for-feature, 2.0 matches direct3d 9c (and probably 10). But yes, i agree, supporting both is the best as it allows for maximum compatibility.
Jaix wrote:Split from "Faster development of ReactOS... (proposal)"

This thread started as a branch that "took over" the subject in the mentioned thread, despite tries to get the thread back on track again it didn't, so I thought it was better to split the forum up in two.

Keep to the subject now!
Well it was a sub-subject to the thread. I was simply stating why to my original post of being against of not supporting OpenGL to "speed things along". Saying something along the lines of "just drop OpenGL" and leaving it be is a little optimistic.
;-)
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Jaix
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Thou art forgiven

Post by Jaix » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:31 pm

Well it was a sub-subject to the thread. I was simply stating why to my original post of being against of not supporting OpenGL to "speed things along". Saying something along the lines of "just drop OpenGL" and leaving it be is a little optimistic.
That's who I am...

Thou art forgiven! Go and sin no more! :)

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