Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

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zydon
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Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by zydon » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:25 pm

Is it because ROS hasn't reach binary compatibility that almost all MS OSes had such as from DOS thru Win7 able to run on VPC?

Or it is simply because there is no drivers for ROS to survive visualization under VPC?

I just wish there were more discussion about what is require for ROS to run on VPC. Is there any work-around for user to make the ROS Alpha versions works on VPC. I assume if ROS working in VPC, it will work on any x86 real hardware because all those MS OSes running on VPC (DOS, Win3.1, Win9x, WinME, WinNT, Win2K, WinXP, Vista and Win7) were completely compatible x86 machines.

Somehow, ROS doesn't. I used to think VPC doesn't compatible with common x86 machine. Since it's even run many Linux OSes too, I begin to think ROS need a special x86 PC. I hope there is more discussion and info on this subject.

SomeGuy
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by SomeGuy » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:25 pm

The problem with virtualizers is they only emulate the bare minimum needed to run a specific OS. Step outside of that bare minimum with an oddball driver, an unknown OS service pack, or an OS that the virtualizer doesn't officially "support" and things fall apart.

I don't know the specific issue, but it is probably some issue in Virtual PC itself. Either an unimplemented hardware emulation feature, or some buggy partially implemented feature. Sometimes they have to intentionally omit certain pieces of hardware emulation because it would slow everything down. Likely ReactOS would have to implement a workaround to work on Virtual PC.

Unfortunately, just because something runs inside a virtualizer/emulator doesn't mean it will run on real hardware. Real hardware, especially recent "modern" hardware, suffers from a similar problem. There may be hardware features that were present for Windows 9x, 2000, or XP (That ReactOS or other OSs may choose to use) and those crafty corner-cutting Chinese remove them or bug them up. As long as it runs the absolute latest Microsoft(TM) Windows(R), they don't care.

erkinalp
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by erkinalp » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:22 pm

I agree because the similar thing does not happen in QEMU.
-uses Ubuntu+GNOME 3 GNU/Linux
-likes Free (as in freedom) and Open Source Detergents
-favors open source of Windows 10 under GPL2

Z98
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by Z98 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:55 pm

A non-compliant video emulation on Microsoft's part. And since VPC is basically end of life'ed, they have no reason to care or ever attempt to fix it. VPC was never a very good virtual machine package to begin with, so I would suggest you move onto something else.

zydon
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by zydon » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:56 pm

It seem the most issue with ROS can't load inside VPC is it's non-VESA emulated display adapter (S3). As I found it too that the booting stop when it found no VESA supported by the emulator. Wouldn't this is an old issue?

If I'm not mistaken, isn't that ROS now has VGA standard added into the OS? So, the VESA detection during booting is not required anymore and should be clean up. Since any display adapter supporting standard VGA compliant nowadays, the OS should be able to run inside VPC or any system with minimum VGA display adapter.

It will widen the range of hardware to test ROS even with a low VGA resolution. It also provide better input for the most common bugs running on a various hardware. Basically, VPC is a non issue here but VGA mode is a must to boot ROS for the first time after installation and/or for the liveCD.

SomeGuy
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by SomeGuy » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:56 am

zydon wrote:If I'm not mistaken, isn't that ROS now has VGA standard added into the OS?
ReactOS has always had a standard 640*480*16 VGA driver. The problem is it defaults to a VESA driver during install, and then falls on its face when it turns out VESA 2.0 isn't actually present. (It aught to fall back to VGA if the selected driver fails, but I guess this is still unimplemented)

So try selecting VGA video during setup and see if that makes a difference.

zydon
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by zydon » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:10 am

Using VGA 4bit resolution, it works but slowing down the mouse responses. Seem like there is missing 16 colors icons in lower resolution. But menu and program loading is fast like it suppose to.

The main culprit slowing ROS down is the Explorer application that handle desktop and file manager. There also Resize bug where the new size should be define as soon as the mouse button released. But the ROS Explore still following the mouse pointer and continue resizing even after the left mouse button released.

Jedi-to-be
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by Jedi-to-be » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:35 am

Z98 wrote:A non-compliant video emulation on Microsoft's part. And since VPC is basically end of life'ed, they have no reason to care or ever attempt to fix it. VPC was never a very good virtual machine package to begin with, so I would suggest you move onto something else.
Well, VPC is NOT basically end of life'ed. Now it is an embedded option in Windows 7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Virtual_PC

fred02
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by fred02 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:24 pm

Jedi-to-be wrote:
Z98 wrote:A non-compliant video emulation on Microsoft's part. And since VPC is basically end of life'ed, they have no reason to care or ever attempt to fix it. VPC was never a very good virtual machine package to begin with, so I would suggest you move onto something else.
Well, VPC is NOT basically end of life'ed. Now it is an embedded option in Windows 7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Virtual_PC
It's been assimilated! :lol:
(But since it is not supported on the "latest and greatest", it is de facto EOL :arrow: R.I.P.)

Jedi-to-be
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by Jedi-to-be » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:50 pm

No. Windows 7 will be with us as main stream for about 10 years from 2009.

Jedi-to-be
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by Jedi-to-be » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:27 pm

CORE-4247 Can't send debugging information out COM1 with VPC is FIXED now.

Please retest and make debug logs.

zydon
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by zydon » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:47 pm

I thought I could test further after successfully install Rel. 0.3.14 in VPC 2007. But the latest SVN build (Such as 57782 and 57784) Failed when booting from the BootCD with the following BSOD message:

Code: Select all

I01_INITIALIZATION_FAILED
While they successfully booting on QEMU, the BootLogo animation seem being broken unnecessarily. Why you had to fix things that didn't broken before?

swight
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by swight » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:56 pm

Sometimes fixing a bug reveals another bug that depended on the former bug to appear to function properly. or at least that is my guess. I haven't looked at the source code.

Jedi-to-be
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Re: Why ReactOS is failing in Virtual PC?

Post by Jedi-to-be » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:58 pm


zydon
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Re: BootLogo and VBE Widescreen in Virtual PC?

Post by zydon » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:32 am

zydon wrote:While they successfully booting on QEMU, the BootLogo animation seem being broken unnecessarily. Why you had to fix things that didn't broken before?
Thanks for BootLogo fix in SVN-57860.

Yet BootCD still failed to load in VPC2007. Hopefully it will restore the boot up in VPC like the 0.3.14 release.

I found it I can run all those VESA resolution included the Widescreen capability from DOS app for VPC2007. DOS app like the GVFM allows me to change the video resolutions under VESA such as 800x512x32bit max, 896x672x16bit max, 1152x720x16bit max and 1600x1200x16bit max.

VESA Widescreen!! Even it's limited with 16:10 ratio, I would overjoy if ROS would consider adding this resolution into it;e VGA driver. Also found out that by using Linear Frame Buffers (LFB) option with those modes, it was a smooth sailing!

Then I found some reading too about these uncommon VBE resolution on Wikipedia for whoever interested about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions

Wish any ROS developers could consider about these wide screen resolution feature.

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