Second dev contract posted

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Z98
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Second dev contract posted

Post by Z98 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:43 pm


DOSGuy
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by DOSGuy » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:53 pm

Good, that's an important system. I hope that killing those bugs will help a lot.
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alfanak.net
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by alfanak.net » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:49 am

- workin with current developer is good idea
- 720€ for no new features is not reasonable!
(i think)

PascalDragon
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by PascalDragon » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:02 am

You don't think that a system that allows to automatically find bugs when an application is run on ReactOS is not worth 720€? Especially to find regressions this is a very important system and worth every cent! (IMHO)

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EmuandCo
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by EmuandCo » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:14 am

alfanak.net wrote:- workin with current developer is good idea
- 720€ for no new features is not reasonable!
(i think)
Its very reasonable, because the test team spends ages for all the regression testing and this can be reduced that way. We see regressions immediately and they can be ironed out.
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

fulea.stefan
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by fulea.stefan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:04 pm

Both the decisions of respecting the transparency of finance management (as much as it is) and that of maintaining the expenses in resonable limits, are worth giving credit for. I hope for the appropriate good results.

Pesho
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by Pesho » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:23 pm

You don't think that a system that allows to automatically find bugs when an application is run on ReactOS is not worth 720€?
This 720€ is for jimtabor to fix some old bugs in the win32 subsystem, not for making a bug finding system at all.

You are probably referring to the AHK related work which is done by Edijs Kolesnikovics for 168€. That contract has already been completed and then extended for another 168€ to add additional functionality to the testing system.

The total amount spent so far should be 1056€ and it's doing good so far. The money should be spent on tedious but important tasks that developers are normally reluctant to handle.

Z98
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by Z98 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:17 pm

The hourly rate comes out to 6 euros/hour. That's maybe a quarter or a fifth of industry standard for an entry level position, much less market rates for someone of Jim's skill and experience.

DOSGuy
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by DOSGuy » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:20 pm

alfanak.net wrote:- workin with current developer is good idea
- 720€ for no new features is not reasonable!
(i think)
I would rather have the existing features actually @^!#%ing work! I realize that some deep level changes have been made recently, but for the last few weeks, each revision I've tested has been worse than the last. I'm finally able to install Opera again (regression fixed), but I can no longer install The Adventures of MicroMan because of some nonsense where it's looking for disk 2 in a non-existent directory, which has NEVER happened before (regression introduced).

You simply cannot release 0.3.15 until it's better than 0.3.14. With all of the regressions that have been introduced by recent overhauls and, of course, the introduction of new features, we're nowhere close to releasing 0.3.15. Screw adding new features because that will just make things worse. Fixing the existing features is worth every penny from both contracts. I hope we do nothing but fix bugs and regressions until 0.3.15.
Today entirely the maniac there is no excuse with the article. Get free DOS, Windows and OS/2 games at RGB Classic Games.

cruonit
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by cruonit » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:18 pm

I agree, fixing bugs is very important and requires sometimes more skill than to write new code. Developers hate to do that so i support this initiative to spend the money for bug fixes.

As i said for this money you can get a programmer with masters degree to work for a month 9 hours a day :| (in my country)
I respect James and i think he should get the money and will do the job in half of the time than another developer that just started (and because of his former work) so it's not that cheap but i know he will be best for the job.

But why not to be fair and put the jobs on freelancer.com(or similar) , i think the best and chepest developer should win the job(rtos developers could also apply) not the one that someone(who, when ???) decides.

Public sponsored organiations must make a vacancy, why is reactos different :|

I like the initiative to support the reactos developers so that they can earn some money for the work that they do and have done(and love) and it's fair, but maybe another developer from the team would also be interested to do that job, so i think freelancer is the best solution.

ps. developing new features could rise the number of donators because the people see the progress.

But on the other hand to spend money on developing new features could make the developers angry because whe is someone getting money and i don't so to spend the money for things that the developer don't like(bugs, test and so on) is a very good decision.

vicmarcal
Test Team
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by vicmarcal » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:33 am

cruonit wrote:
But why not to be fair and put the jobs on freelancer.com(or similar) , i think the best and chepest developer should win the job(rtos developers could also apply) not the one that someone(who, when ???) decides.
Not agree at all.
In the first place the area Jimtabor will work is not a trivial area. I seriously doubt there will be a guy in Freelancer with User32:msg and User32 general expertise. We can't trust an external guy to fix such important and messed area as our subsytem is.
We should begin understand that Reactos developers are not just "apps developers".You can find a lot of app developers out there.But System developers, a higher degree in the rank. They dont code apps,they code the APIs that apps will use. I doubt a master degree guy knows how to develop Microsoft compatible APIs and if so,it could be, I doubt they will know and understand current Reactos code as Reactos devs do.
Understanding others code is the painer process out there,even more if the code is buggy in a buggy OS. Be sure that Freelancer devs will waste all the money trying,just,to understand the global code scope.Not developing related. Even more, I am sure they wont accept such a work for such little money.System developers are just a few out there.They are really well paid.I am an Android,IOs, WinAPI developer, but I dont have enough skills to develop an OS. If Reactos System devs are willing to accept such little amount is because they fell Reactos as their creature.And because they care about it.We should be grateful because there are just few System devs out there able to create an OS from scratch.Even less to bugfix others code.
Be sure Reactos contracts tries to put in value each dollar you have donated.This is not about hiring "our friends" but hiring well-known devs who are really able to push till the code is fixed/implemented. We dont want to take risks,it is your money and our credibility,so we prefer to bet for well-known and skilled devs.
A waiter in my country wins much more money per hour worked.
If you are able to find System devs for such small amount, not just app devs, please contact me. But they will have to care about Reactos not just when money is around but always, as our devs are doing for 15 years now.
So please,before critizing try to see the global picture or,if you dont have enough knowlege to understand it, just ask :)
Image

vicmarcal
Test Team
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by vicmarcal » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:49 am

DOSGuy wrote:Good, that's an important system. I hope that killing those bugs will help a lot.
It will :)
If I am not mistaken it is highly related to process correctly the AttachThreadInput and related APIs.
Basically passing the control correctly from one to another thread : A complex task where the User32:msg and the own Api plus underlying code will be related.
Main beneficts?
Complex installers, AHK apps and tests,and general software which uses threading:Complex apps.
I bet that most of those AHK tests failing will begin working afterwards :) So detecting regressions will be so easy and automated :)

andreas84
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by andreas84 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:31 am

i think the react os developer know the best where to put the money and how much to pay for the work in an area. the only think i would suggest is to extend the area. so if the win32 is buggy the devs could be hired to completely fix it in a certain time. if the reasonable amount of money for this is too high the time could be extendet. this on the one hand on the other hand i just assume the hired devs will even after the month keep working and fixing new introduced or not solved problems.

alfanak.net
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by alfanak.net » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:37 am

this is a useless discussion

- this is a good contract
- i hope it will finish as soon as possible
- waiting for new good contracts

i hope you lock this topic because it is going to wrong way :(

cruonit
Posts: 250
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Re: Second dev contract posted

Post by cruonit » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:13 pm

I had system programming as a course on my bachelor study(coded an OS from ground up - a little one only command prompt also i wrote a few drivers but still..) and i am a PhD student now in CS so you don't have to explain me those things. The waiter in my country earns 250-300€ so...

System programming is a common course on CS/SE faculties but expirienced programmers arn't.
But still you didn't read my post, as i said there could be other reactos developers that maybe also interested in doing those fixes for money or you could even get more developers through such things, if you don't try it you can't know it.

I follow this project for more than five years - i read the VC logs and the forum every day. Why didn't i code something ? I did, but i had not the time to finish it (completed the indexing service based on clucene, and a demo search app that uses those data) because i am working on weekends too.

But i am helping in different ways - posting reactos news to local forums and lobbying the professors (i think my faculty was the first one that offered a master thesis that analizes reactos)


vicmarcal wrote:
cruonit wrote:
But why not to be fair and put the jobs on freelancer.com(or similar) , i think the best and chepest developer should win the job(rtos developers could also apply) not the one that someone(who, when ???) decides.
Not agree at all.
In the first place the area Jimtabor will work is not a trivial area. I seriously doubt there will be a guy in Freelancer with User32:msg and User32 general expertise. We can't trust an external guy to fix such important and messed area as our subsytem is.
We should begin understand that Reactos developers are not just "apps developers".You can find a lot of app developers out there.But System developers, a higher degree in the rank. They dont code apps,they code the APIs that apps will use. I doubt a master degree guy knows how to develop Microsoft compatible APIs and if so,it could be, I doubt they will know and understand current Reactos code as Reactos devs do.
Understanding others code is the painer process out there,even more if the code is buggy in a buggy OS. Be sure that Freelancer devs will waste all the money trying,just,to understand the global code scope.Not developing related. Even more, I am sure they wont accept such a work for such little money.System developers are just a few out there.They are really well paid.I am an Android,IOs, WinAPI developer, but I dont have enough skills to develop an OS. If Reactos System devs are willing to accept such little amount is because they fell Reactos as their creature.And because they care about it.We should be grateful because there are just few System devs out there able to create an OS from scratch.Even less to bugfix others code.
Be sure Reactos contracts tries to put in value each dollar you have donated.This is not about hiring "our friends" but hiring well-known devs who are really able to push till the code is fixed/implemented. We dont want to take risks,it is your money and our credibility,so we prefer to bet for well-known and skilled devs.
A waiter in my country wins much more money per hour worked.
If you are able to find System devs for such small amount, not just app devs, please contact me. But they will have to care about Reactos not just when money is around but always, as our devs are doing for 15 years now.
So please,before critizing try to see the global picture or,if you dont have enough knowlege to understand it, just ask :)

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