checking if features are implemented.

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swight
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:31 pm

checking if features are implemented.

Post by swight »

I know this may seem premature, but I was wondering if ReactOS has support yet for locking down application installs. Also does ReactOS support network installs such that it could be deployed to multiple computers at once?

The first question is important as our system is still alpha. Basically if we could lock down installs we could install ReactOS in more public locations without fear of someone installing a program that works on windows but not ReactOS. Also someone could go into a business and prove ReactOS works for their applications and won't crash as soon as someone decides they have to have their favorite instant messenger(most common program type I had to remove at the computer lab I used to work at).

The second question is important because IT managers of larger companies don't want to spend time on every single computer to install an operating system. This would severely hurt project budgets due to increased man hours required. This would make ReactOS a lot less appealing as they are all about the bottom line. Licensing may not matter if it costs just as much to install the operating system in labor.

andreas84
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:09 pm

Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by andreas84 »

swight wrote: we could install ReactOS in more public locations without fear of someone installing a program that works on windows but not ReactOS.
Right now you cannot install it on normal hardware and i think we should wait till it is possible to do so before we install it on public computers...

swight
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by swight »

That is exactly the response I was expecting when I mentioned that it may sound premature. While it is true that ReactOS doesn't work well on real hardware yet it doesn't mean that we can't somehow luck out and find companies that are using compatible systems. Also there is the possibility of maybe maybe using a linux host to run ReactOS in say Qemu.

I am kinda surprised I haven't seen many efforts to make an iso with ReactOS inside linux to cope with the lack of hardware support.

andreas84
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:09 pm

Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by andreas84 »

swight wrote: I am kinda surprised I haven't seen many efforts to make an iso with ReactOS inside linux to cope with the lack of hardware support.
You want a company to run ros inside linux or windows for a day to day use as long it is in alpha? :shock:

I am sure you can use it in linux as well i dont know the technical details however.

Z98
Release Engineer
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Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by Z98 »

The first is a user permissions/security issue. I don't think we have enough of the watchguards in place, though a lot of the plumbing underneath is actually in place.

The second, no. No work has really been done. Though there is imaging software out there that will work on OSes that do not explicitly support it. But ReactOS basically offers no help on the matter.

swight
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by swight »

Thanks for the info Z98.

andreas84: (not sure of the manner in which you were shocked as there are 2 or 3 interpretation that could apply in that context)That is the idea I was proposing. But only til we get good enough hardware support of our own. kinda like the arwinsys idea where we are borrowing win32 more from wine as a stop gap for quick functionality vs yarotows where we are rolling our own more accurate version. hope I spelled those acronyms right. Also this would only be if ReactOS covered that companies needs as in all the programs they required actually work.

kinda off topic rant:
Though this whole mentality that the operating system should not be used on real hardware simply because it is alpha bugs me to no end. You essentially get into a loop where we say hey because we don't have hardware support we don't run this on real hardware. hey developers give us hardware support so we can run on real hardware. developers respond where is the problem? users don't respond because they gave up on real hardware and are on virtual hardware. Loop repeats until someone uses currently unsupported hardware and reports the issues or developer happens to get a piece unsupported hardware to play with to make it work.

When no one is reporting specific problems developers tend to assume that everything is ok with what they have done so it is not a priority to look for problems in it. It is also much easier to find problems if you are given the location where the problem manifests it's self rather than trying to scour the whole code base for one error. Another thing is why would you try to support something that no one is using enough to report problems with it. Point being if we want hardware support we gotta use it.

andreas84
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:09 pm

Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by andreas84 »

yes i think also that hardwaresupport should get priority to some extend.
But for any production computer either in an company or in public there is no space for and alpha of any kind not even for beta.
Lets just assume a server which crashes every 2 h or a machine which controls the manufacturing process in a company even in a office a alpha would go harvoc and the crashes could cost A LOAD real money. Just imagine install it in a nuclear power plant to control the fission ;)

Lets now assume a internet cafe. The customers would be a little more frustrated than with windows if it crashes regularly and don't support some programs.

I do not see any reason why someone in any of this spaces would prefer ros over windows in the state now. This ofcourse would change when ros is completely stable and more safe than windows and maybe even has more functionality and is more compatible then many people will get it.

swight
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by swight »

My biggest points on this that I have repeated almost every post this thread is if ReactOS can serve the purpose why not? and Why should we discourage people from finding out if it works for them?

Your questions tell me that you missed the first point. I am only saying to use ReactOS where it has proven it's self capable of doing the job to the required specifications. I am not talking business wide deployments here.

If you needed a server that won't crash every 2 hours you would test it to make sure that it doesn't. If it does crash too often you find yourself new set up that doesn't. To do otherwise would be sheer stupidity even on a stable operating system.

With the internet cafe once the rights management feature to prohibit software installations was available you could say it is store policy to prohibit customer installed programs. And all programs that are installed should have been tested to make sure they don't cause the system to crash.If they do crash because of ReactOS then it fails the condition of serving the purpose and thus should not be used.

oldman
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Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by oldman »

Post by andreas84 » 09 Aug 2012 13:45
Right now you cannot install it on normal hardware and i think we should wait till it is possible to do so before we install it on public computers...
This is false!
I have been installing it for years, ok, some revision don't install, but most that I have tried, have.
There are programmes that have never installed, such as 'postgresql' and some that have (even if they did not work fully), and there are some which currently don't, such as 'Media Player Classic' (http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/ ... =directory).

I would encourage others to have ago with installing on real hardware, but with a computer that is not dear to them.

kayedee
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:44 am

Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by kayedee »

oldman wrote:
I would encourage others to have ago with installing on real hardware, but with a computer that is not dear to them.
Yes, we should all attempt it on a weekly basis with the trunk builds and report our bugs, we are trying to achieve a Beta status and need hardware support to progress.

PurpleGurl
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Location: USA

Re: checking if features are implemented.

Post by PurpleGurl »

Well, I don't see anyone using the alpha thing as a copout and I see no loop nor catch-22 mindset. It isn't that real hardware isn't supported, it is just that the project is not to the point where it can be used reliably on real hardware. Yes, depending on the exact revision, it will work well enough on some machines, depending on the hardware and exact applications used.

For those having drive compatibility issues, I've noticed a number of ATA driver improvements lately. So I am sure some who could not use it before can now because of that. That will improve things for AHCI and RAID users.

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