How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactOS?

Here you can discuss ReactOS related topics.

Moderator: Moderator Team

SomeGuy
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:48 am
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by SomeGuy » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:28 pm

Brent, you simply don't have a legitimate concern here.

There are no lawyers on this forum, so discussing things like this here is pointless, and only serves to stir up Fear, Uncertainty, and, Doubt.

I suggest that the mods lock this topic.

BrentNewland
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:32 am

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by BrentNewland » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:26 pm

SomeGuy wrote:Brent, you simply don't have a legitimate concern here.

There are no lawyers on this forum, so discussing things like this here is pointless, and only serves to stir up Fear, Uncertainty, and, Doubt.

I suggest that the mods lock this topic.
I think that, just because you don't like a topic, is no reason for it to be locked.

You don't think I have a legitimate concern, good for you. Don't read this topic then, go read another one.

Being sued by Microsoft, or having distribution blocked, is a legitimate concern. I'm concerned about it, which means there must be other people concerned as well.

DOSGuy
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:55 pm
Contact:

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by DOSGuy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:38 pm

No, seriously, enough already. It's a shame that you're concerned, but this is neither a legal forum nor a therapy group. Fear is normal, but we all need to learn how to live with our irrational fears.

Also, ReactOS is not going to obliterate Microsoft's market. Why do people pay for Microsoft Office when they could use free alternatives like Libre Office? No matter how good ReactOS gets, people will still pay for Microsoft Windows. Windows will always be a step ahead because ReactOS imitates Windows, and an original always precedes a copy. Beyond that, some will stick with the original out of ignorance, others (such as my employer) out of the need for both 100% compatibility and Microsoft's support, others out of personal preference. If merely releasing a free alternative to a Microsoft product could obliterate the market for a Microsoft product, Microsoft would be out of business by now. The only way to truly steal their marketshare is to innovate and release a significantly superior product (i.e. Firefox and Chrome stealing IE's market share), but we're limited in the extent that we can innovate if we want to maintain full compatibility and the look and feel of Windows. One of the goals of the project is to create an OS that any Windows user could sit down and use with no learning curve and, ideally, no idea that they're not using Windows. If we one-up Windows and create something clearly superior, it won't be a drop-in replacement for Windows or an effortless and invisible transition for Windows users.
Today entirely the maniac there is no excuse with the article. Get free DOS, Windows and OS/2 games at RGB Classic Games.

BrentNewland
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:32 am

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by BrentNewland » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:03 pm

Wow, I don't know what your guys's problem is, but you have a really bad attitude. I saw you say you're on the PR team, if everyone shares your opinion, it's no surprise ReactOS has been making less headway recently (publicly speaking).

You say that ReactOS could never dominate Windows. Do you really think Microsoft can stay on top forever?

People buy Microsoft because they need something that runs all their programs. Well, besides ReactOS, there's Wine, and it's not user friendly.

You don't think this discussion should take place because this isn't a legal forum? You don't think there should be any discussion about precautions that are/have been taken against the rising threat of patent lawsuits?

You say Windows will always be a step ahead. That doesn't matter, because Windows next step is a step in the wrong direction. Microsoft has gotten completely out of touch with what their customer base wants, but ReactOS hasn't. And there's a fair chance this could be the biggest mistake Microsoft has made since its inception.

As far as being unable to create anything superior, dead wrong. All it takes is listening, something Microsoft doesn't want to do. As long as the general UI elements stay the same, there is a lot of room for innovation without breaking the experience. And it's always been planned that other people would make their own ReactOS distros with their own improvements.

By your logic, once something has been created in a field, it will never be surpassed, ever (despite cars, planes, spacecraft, computers, memory, and everything else ever).

Aeneas
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:09 pm

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by Aeneas » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:35 pm

Brent,

Let us be realistic. This "ReactOS will conquer the world" thing WILL NOT HAPPEN. You know that as well as anyone else.

But your patent discussion thing... is vain. I know you think "but I found this thing, do you not see it", and I assure you, we see it, but we do not regard it as actually dangerous.

When a patent application is made, the patent office DOES NOT and CANNOT check whether it is a "valid" new patent. It just considers, COULD it be one - it is a plausibility check. Because daily, there may be hundreds of patents coming in and you cannot handle them all if you bother too long.

Moreover, there are other "angles of attack" for MS. (E.g., they do not even need to say that someone is somehow breaching their patent, they could just say that he is obtaining unfair profits through "slavish imitation" and other such funny concepts. They can go directly for unfair competition.) Just as there are "positions of defense" for ReactOS. (Is this thing what ReactOS uses in any way subsumable under the cover of your alleged patents? If MS never sued anyone, did they maybe give up their rights in some form, e.g. by allowing a market practice to establish that forces a narrow interpretation of their rights? Was there prior art? Is it fair that a company with a desktop OS market share of 80-90% actually uses its power in such a way as to hinder a much smaller open-source initiative? [That is, by the way, precisely the reason why APPLE can do MORE than MS. The EU and US market manipulation rules do not apply to it as they do to MS.] Is the MS patent valid?... Where? As I pointed out above, the EU does not know or recognise software patents! - Can a court decision be executed here? Did MS itself "borrow ideas" from someone and might it face "retaliation" e.g. by the EFF? You know, Windows started at some point to look remarkably like KDE...)

You realise one thing: we would have to conduct here multiple huge simulated court proceedings in order to find out any "result" (more of a proposition, actually), and your findings would be doubtful in the best case. It is exactly that what whole STATES DO NOT DO when registering intellectual property. So I propose to test for plausibility, as everybody does.

If you stick with the plausibility check which I mentioned above, you cannot fail to observe the market practice - ReactOS actually has a much more individual approach than the majority of software projects and it completely follows the market practice to do its own design. ReactOS is taking great care to not infringe anything - you see this when you look at the description of the project quite immediately. While "doing like everybody else" is not a "guarantee" from a theoretical standpoint, I can tell you that practically, it works out fine. That is the only realistic precaution that can be taken, at least in my opinion.

Hence, I really do not see room for further such considerations in any useful way.

But I would be more than pleased if you would actually let us know how you would, e.g., spread the popularity of ReactOS. I mean, I see that you like to write and you can show quite a persistence in a matter. How about seeing you in some other thread? ;) I'd love to hear your opinion.

andreas84
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:09 pm

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by andreas84 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:14 pm

What would be the real legal threads to ros when it comes to the market and is a defense prepared for this?
Anyone more informations?

DOSGuy
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:55 pm
Contact:

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by DOSGuy » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:52 pm

BrentNewland wrote:You don't think this discussion should take place because this isn't a legal forum? You don't think there should be any discussion about precautions that are/have been taken against the rising threat of patent lawsuits?
I didn't say it shouldn't occur, I say it has been discussed enough. Since none of us are patent lawyers, to the best of my knowledge, there appears to be nothing left to say. You're concerned, other people aren't, but you feel that they should be. Doomsdayers are sometimes right, but people get tired of hearing their doomsday prophecies. Eventually it just gets people upset and isn't a productive discussion any more.
BrentNewland wrote:You say Windows will always be a step ahead. That doesn't matter, because Windows next step is a step in the wrong direction. Microsoft has gotten completely out of touch with what their customer base wants, but ReactOS hasn't. And there's a fair chance this could be the biggest mistake Microsoft has made since its inception.
I felt the same way until very recently. I had heard almost nothing about how Windows 8 was going to be superior to Windows 7. In the last few weeks, I've heard hacking experts talk about how much more secure Win8 is. I've also read Microsoft blogs about how 2D hardware acceleration is going to make all kinds of graphics rendering faster. My current impression of Win8 is that it has a lot of worthwhile improvements, and the only real sticking point is the loss of the Start Menu to the "Windows 8 UI-style" Start Screen aka Metro. If it really ticks people off that much, it will be probably be addressed in SP1. Anything that sucks about Win8 will probably be dealt with within a year.
BrentNewland wrote:As far as being unable to create anything superior, dead wrong. All it takes is listening, something Microsoft doesn't want to do. As long as the general UI elements stay the same, there is a lot of room for innovation without breaking the experience. And it's always been planned that other people would make their own ReactOS distros with their own improvements.
ReactOS will be (and already is) superior to Windows in some regards. It will support filesystems that Windows doesn't, like Ext2. ReactOS has the freedom to natively support technologies that Windows doesn't, but the need to look, feel, behave, and be compatible with Windows will always be a limiting factor.
BrentNewland wrote:By your logic, once something has been created in a field, it will never be surpassed, ever (despite cars, planes, spacecraft, computers, memory, and everything else ever).
That's not an applicable comparison. Almost everyone who makes a car, plane, spacecraft, computer, memory, etc., wants their product to look, feel, behave and just be better than their competitors' products. There's no need for their product to look and feel so similar to the competitor's product that people will feel like it's the same product. Quite to the contrary, they want their product to look and feel different to distinguish their product and brand!

It's definitely okay for ReactOS to be faster than Windows, or support more filesystems, or use less memory, or [insert superior thing here], as long as it still looks and feels and behaves like Windows. I'll definitely agree with you that there's no rule that prevents ReactOS from being superior to Windows, but we just have to be realistic about the prospects of a small group of volunteers producing a better OS than one that was produced by hundreds or thousands of full-time Microsoft employees. Hands-down superior is unlikely, but we can choose niches that Microsoft has ignored to create a product that is more desirable to people who happen to want or need that feature.
Today entirely the maniac there is no excuse with the article. Get free DOS, Windows and OS/2 games at RGB Classic Games.

Jedi-to-be
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Russia, Stavropol
Contact:

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactOS?

Post by Jedi-to-be » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:19 pm

The patent has expired today. But no ReactOS 1.0 version was released yet.

PurpleGurl
Posts: 1777
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:11 am
Location: USA

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by PurpleGurl » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:41 pm

jimtabor wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:39 am
No, plus it would not hold up in court.
Plus it just expired today if I am reading it right.

learn_more
Developer
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:00 pm

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactO

Post by learn_more » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:15 pm

PurpleGurl wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:41 pm
jimtabor wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:39 am
No, plus it would not hold up in court.
Plus it just expired today if I am reading it right.
Plus it expired today.







(as already said in the post DIRECTLY above yours)

shunesburg
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:46 pm
Location: Somewhere in France

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactOS?

Post by shunesburg » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:17 pm

Jedi-to-be wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:19 pm
The patent has expired today. But no ReactOS 1.0 version was released yet.
:shock: :o You know, ReactOS is in Alpha status since 1995. It's still in Alpha state, so, if you looking for the 1.0 release, you should find it in long long time the future. :lol:


Reactions
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:30 am

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactOS?

Post by Reactions » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:43 pm

It's from Back to the Future!
Please support/share my Patreon! Helps so much! https://www.patreon.com/reactions

shunesburg
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:46 pm
Location: Somewhere in France

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactOS?

Post by shunesburg » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:36 am

dizt3mp3r wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:22 pm
We have a time machine if you really need to obtain version 1.0. It needs a bit if work.
Reactions wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:43 pm
It's from Back to the Future!
And you need 1.21 Gigawatts. Great Scott! :lol:

Reactions
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:30 am

Re: How does Microsoft's patent on the taskbar affect ReactOS?

Post by Reactions » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:54 pm

Or run to the local pharmacy to get some plutonium!
Please support/share my Patreon! Helps so much! https://www.patreon.com/reactions

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 2 guests