ReactOS Fundraising 2012

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PurpleGurl
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by PurpleGurl »

I tend to think goals and promises should be reasonable. If someone asked for $1M for for $6 hammer, they would have trouble raising the $1M than if they were trying raise that much to build an orphanage. So value comes into play in the perception of need. If I asked for a million to buy a $6 hammer, then I'd be lucky if I raise $10, since that would be a poor return on the investment.

I was thinking along the line because of the comments made about the goal sizes. Yes, if you ask for smaller numbers you could ask more often. But if you want an ultimate goal for the whole thing, then you'd want a very large number, maybe 20% more than projected. Now, if the numbers are very high or very low, people will want an explanation. If it is low, then explain we are breaking it into pieces. If it is high, then explain it is the projected total or some stage near that. When it comes to fundraising, one perception you need to convey is trust and transparency.

Webunny
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Webunny »

I don't recall ever bringing in logic.
Logic should be brought in in any debate. ;)
The use of the word logical in logical extremes refers to expected or natural endpoint of a premise.
Note however that no such endpoints are set or alluded on, nor are there, in this case, any 'natural' endpoints, as I have demonstrated with increasing the amount. There is no indication that 10000 or 30000 or 50000 or 80000 or 100000, etc. would constitute a 'natural endpoint'. If there is no natural endpoint (if there ever is such a thing, because 'natural' is a rather ambiguous term), then one would have to set one, or indicate one, which wasn't done. Even if it was done, one would still have to indicate why the used reasoning would logically fail if that endpoint was reached. (aka, why for instance, 100000 would get you more money than asking for 80000, but why asking 120000 would not get more money than 100000; it seems, given the premise, a very strange and difficult thing to logically argument with any validity why at a very defined amount the logic/reasoning used would suddenly not apply anymore. Rather it is more reasonable to conclude the original claim was incorrect.)


In and of itself there is no true/false notion behind it. I also have not tried to argue on the topic of 'the more you ask the more you get' since the person who originally presented it fell into the trap of presenting an oversimplified position which is too easy for the otherside to pick apart on the details.
That usually happens to oversimplified positions, and rightfully so. It then comes to the poster to rectify or adapt his position in a way that it becomes plausible, or at least, that it *does* make sense. If, however, one holds on to it regardless, than naturally it gets disregarded as being invalid, because the logic applied show the inherent contradictions, and thus the failure, in the reasoning/claim used. I say the reasoning itself, and not the details, because, as I've demonstrated, the inherent failure in the claim was not due to the details (for instance, in what amount is used), but rather in the used tenet itself.

I do however take issue with your position as a whole, since it is based on the notion that 30,000 euros is too high a goal, and any support you bring to bear rests on that notion, a personal opinion of yours. While people might not realize it, this particular point cannot be proven one way or another until after the campaign is over so everyone started arguing around the original point of disagreement, resulting in the giant mess I see right now. At this time however the debate is moot as the team spent a fair amount of time thrashing out the details of the campaign over a course of months and the campaign has already started. Whether there is any validity in the points raised so far will be judged based on the outcome of the campaign.

I find myself largely in agreement with your post. (Mostly because it DOES use logic :P ). It's true I can't know for sure that 30000 is an excessive amount to ask or not; I already indicated this in my former post. Could be I'm wrong and 30000 is a reasonable amount, indeed. As I understand it, this is your stance, and as of yet, your stance is as valid as mine. (We only are going to know for sure when the campaign ends in 2012, and see how much a gap there is between the donations one has got and the 30000 that was asked.) Note, however, that this stance has not been adopted by the original poster (and the one after that); there, it was implied they actually also thought the amount was excessive, but they tried to counter that by saying this was needed, because you then get more. The two viewpoints are different, and while logic demonstrates the latter to be highly unlikely, your stance has as much validity as mine, at least for the moment.

That said, I'm not making that claim without any logical argumentation neither. It is reasonable to assume, that most people familiar with the project will have seen the donationbar by now, and most that wanted to give, have already given. This means the bulk of what you will get, with the current 'marketshare' of people, has already been accrued and it is going to drop from now on. Nothing what I say here seems unreasonable or illogical, me thinks. Furthermore, the validity of what I say could easily be checked if one uses all the data of the donations, and plot it on a line and analyse the distribution-pattern on a time-axis (with a graph, for instance), that has been donated as of yet. You would then clearly see if the donations are steady and stable, climbing, or already dropping after they have had their peak. I'm fairly confident it's the latter, but one could always prove me wrong this way, of course.

This does not entirely exclude the possibility 30000 could be reached, I agree. Maybe some billionaire will come along and donate 20000 in one go, for instance. This, however, is not very plausible or even likely, so one would be hard-pressed to take this as a valid expectation of how one would reach that goal/bar. A bit more reasonable, would be to enlarge the 'marketshare' of people knowing about the project. This could be done by a persistent and highly mediatised PR campaign, for instance, when 3.15 comes out. This is possible, true, but seen the past history, all former releases, press-releases or PR/media-campaigns were only very moderately successful in gaining much 'marketshare' and peek interest with large amounts of (new) people (and thus, potential donators). Certainly not in the amount that would be needed to reasonably get to the 30000 euro goal.

Thus, unless some generous millionaire-patron comes along or one really makes an effort in PR-campaigning in 2012 (a slashdot may help in this case), I do not think the goal is even remotely attainable. Some corroboration (or rebuttal) for this stance could already be gained from the statistical analysis of the donation-data, as I said.

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Black_Fox
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Black_Fox »

Guys, I hope you have better things to do in your free time rather than to argue/discuss on three pages about a number. If you don't, could you as well do a little overtime and, you know, push the donation bar a little more to the right? :)

Webunny
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Webunny »

Black_Fox wrote:Guys, I hope you have better things to do in your free time rather than to argue/discuss on three pages about a number. If you don't, could you as well do a little overtime and, you know, push the donation bar a little more to the right? :)
To answer your questions: no, and already did that. ;)

Still won't reach the 30000 euro mark, though. :ugeek:

Dominik2
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Dominik2 »

Can someone please update the donors page (Last update: 2012-05-15).

Webunny
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Webunny »

Dominik2 wrote:Can someone please update the donors page (Last update: 2012-05-15).
Done!

Dominik2
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Dominik2 »

Webunny wrote:
Dominik2 wrote:Can someone please update the donors page (Last update: 2012-05-15).
Done!
I mean this page (Last update: 2012-05-15):
http://www.reactos.org/en/foundation_donators.html

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jonaspm
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by jonaspm »

Dominik2 wrote:
Webunny wrote:
Dominik2 wrote:Can someone please update the donors page (Last update: 2012-05-15).
Done!
I mean this page (Last update: 2012-05-15):
http://www.reactos.org/en/foundation_donators.html
yeah, it needs some update

Webunny
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Webunny »

Dominik2 wrote: I mean this page (Last update: 2012-05-15):
http://www.reactos.org/en/foundation_donators.html
I see. Thought the bar was enough (though it needs some more update too). I guess that page is done by the same dude that updates the bar, and if I remember well, z98 said it can take a few days to update, since that person isn't much around.


:? Though it seems more than a few days, in regard to that page...

Maybe, if the original person doing it is so busy and has so little time, it might not be a bad idea to give another one access to it too, z98? That way, they can cover eachother, and if one is away, the other can fill in, and vice versa. It's true it doesn't give of a good impression if even the donators-page isn't updated in weeks...

Witch
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Witch »

30 Apr 2012, 00:23
Z98 wrote: It should be noted that these contracts would be significantly below market in terms of compensation relative to the skillsets required. The ReactOS developers have always believed in the project and their participation has never hinged on their being compensated financially. At the same time, there are practical realities and the project hopes that these contracts will permit developers to dedicate more time to ReactOS.

To make this attempt succeed, we all need to pitch in. As one can see in the progress bar, the project hopes to raise €30.000 for this year. This would permit the project to provide contracts to most of the core developers, letting them dedicate much more of their time to ReactOS. So let's get to it!
Question 1. - Contracts
How much money does one below market contract according to ReactOS cost?
How much money does one regular market contract cost?

Question 2. - How many workers? Surplus money?
How many people are intended to divide this $/€ 30.000 sum of money?
What will happen with the surplus money if the donations exceeds the 30.000 $/€ mark?



30 Apr 2012, 22:42
Z98 wrote:It does not serve as a record of all donations. The "credibility" of the project comes through us filing the tax paperwork that comes from accepting donations, and that paperwork is what tracks the amount of money that the project receives.
Question 3. - Possible to publish Tax paperworks?
Credibility is the primary key to any fundraisers. To me posting who donated what and when matters little to me. All I want is to be able to follow the money, companies and governments like that too ;) . What are the possibilities to publish these Tax paperworks? Does it contain sensitive information that evil hackers might take advantage of? If yes is it possible to filter out the sensitive parts?

Webunny
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Webunny »

I'm sure a reaction will be forthcoming...very soon...

Edit (a few days later): *cough*

Dominik2
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Dominik2 »

Webunny wrote:It's true it doesn't give of a good impression if even the donators-page isn't updated in weeks...
+1 week, no update for almost 6 weeks!
Come on, folks! I donated 150 euro-bucks. I would like to see my name there.

Webunny
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Webunny »

Dominik2 wrote:
Webunny wrote:It's true it doesn't give of a good impression if even the donators-page isn't updated in weeks...
+1 week, no update for almost 6 weeks!
Come on, folks! I donated 150 euro-bucks. I would like to see my name there.
Indeed.

I repeat my suggestion to maybe give 2-3 people insight in the donations, so that, if one is too busy, the other(s) can fill in.

Also, as a general rule, with has a point: there is no real reason an open-source project can't be fully transparent and open (in-front) about its income and expenditure, and how much is meant for whom for how long exactly. It might be too soon now, before the fund-raising is over, but some more clarity as to the precise goal of the money (is it for the top 5 core-devs, for instance? Who of the devs is interested at what price?) would be nice, with further details once the money-goal has been reached.

Stead
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Stead »

Just wanted to say, this doesn't add to the discussion.

I have donated several years ago, not much, but I like to think it could still help, truth be told I forgot about this project, but i'm currently unemployed (hence why i've rediscovered It i think, more spare time!) but as soon as I can i'd like to donate to this, I thought the bar at the top was prety neat, although sad that it seems a long way off reaching its goal for the year.

I'd love to help the project, unfourtantly my programming skills are quite basic, and I seem unable to get the motivation to learn new things these days, pressures of life i guess!

I'd really like to see this project reach its goals, I remember I first discovered this back in 1999, hard to think its been going so long now.

I can assure you in the unlikely event of winning the lottery, you guys would get a nice donation ;)

Maybe worth mentioning whilst its in my head, but if you could get charity status in the uk, you'd be eligable for national lottery funding, doesn't mean you'd get anything, but if someone has the time to look into it it may be worth it. I'm not sure how other countries work but the national lottery has contributed a lot to smaller charities/projects

Webunny
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Re: ReactOS Fundraising 2012

Post by Webunny »

Frankly, I find my logical assumption vindicated by the current reality. If I remember correctly, it was said the money-bar was raised only in May. At the end of May, it was at 4960 euro. Now, a month later, it's at 5808 euro. Ok, it may change a few hundred bucks of changes that still must be made, but the point is, it's 5 times lower than the first month. This is totally in line with what I said earlier, namely that the peak was in May, because everyone who was interested and was willing to donate, saw the bar, and already donated (at least, the vast majority did). The amount of money in June is probably due to those that give monthly and people only discovering it now. Of course, this is only a small fraction anymore, comparatively.

Equally logical, is the assumption it will rather be at the level of June in the next months than that of May. (probably even a bit less) Meaning, with another 6 months to go, we'll get between 10000 - 12000 euro at the end of the year. With an new release (3.15) and some extra PR-work, we maybe could get 15000 euro.

This, indeed, seems a far more realistic amount to strive for.

That said, it shouldn't stop us from finding additional potential ways of sponsoring, which is why I suggested the distribution/selling of the alpha Ros-CD's, where I'll take all the risks and Ros gets all the gains. ;)

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