Re: PR Ideas

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SomeGuy
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by SomeGuy »

milawynsrealm wrote:I get the overall feeling that Windows 8 might become a lemon, for the following reasons:
Shortly after Windows 8 is released, you won't be able to buy a new computer without it. It will be interesting to see how much this hurts new PC hardware sales - or if people just give in.
milawynsrealm wrote:The new technology and the new layout would require companies to retrain their staff,
Notice that didn't stop Office 2007 from rolling out. (And EVERYBODY hates that stupid ribbon)
PurpleGurl wrote:Try buying XP in stores.
An important thing to remember is that even if you buy it used or recycle a license you own, after a time Microsoft WILL stop activating it. Some people prefer to believe that Microsoft will be generous and either keep activating or make a patch available so activation is not needed... obviously these people are delusional but they need to be made aware of the fact that XP will cease being an option at all.

milon
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by milon »

SomeGuy wrote:An important thing to remember is that even if you buy it used or recycle a license you own, after a time Microsoft WILL stop activating it. Some people prefer to believe that Microsoft will be generous and either keep activating or make a patch available so activation is not needed... obviously these people are delusional but they need to be made aware of the fact that XP will cease being an option at all.
You're saying that valid keys for valid software will cease to function simply because MS deems they're too old? I can't believe that MS would actually do that, and I'm pretty sure I'm not delusional. They'll drop support for old software, yes, but not kill it outright. If you have any links/info supporting that claim I'd be interested to see it.
Last edited by milon on Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Z98
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by Z98 »

SomeGuy wrote:
milawynsrealm wrote:
milawynsrealm wrote:The new technology and the new layout would require companies to retrain their staff,
Notice that didn't stop Office 2007 from rolling out. (And EVERYBODY hates that stupid ribbon)
I quite like the ribbon. One of the better UI choices any company has made in the past decade as far as I'm concerned.

Haos
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by Haos »

I must say that despite initial awkwardness, i also find ribbon quite useful.

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EmuandCo
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by EmuandCo »

Absolutely seconded. You need less clicks for many tasks and it's well sorted
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes

Pisarz
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by Pisarz »

About ribbon - it's hard to switch from toolbars (for some people) but when you finally get used to it, you'll find it very useful and comfortable and won't want to change it to anything else. The problem is, that people actually hate such radical changes, even if the new UI is better than the old one. I think the same about Windows 7's superbar etc. You just need to give it a try, before even stating, that you "hate it" and install tons of bloatware to make it look more like "the old one".

Still. I don't think, that this rule fits to Metro. It looks fine, and seems useful on touchscreens, but also has one, serious problem - on the typical desktop computer, full-screen apps are space-wasters. I like the idea of non-distractive mode for particular apps, like word processors, but this approach gives us limited multitasking capability. I must admit, that I like the full-screen app feature from OS X Lion more, cause it's optional. As I've already said, such UI convention is good for concentrating on the particular task, but useless for tasks, that require multitasking.

naums
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by naums »

As far as I know Metro is optional. (or will be) I think that you will at least have the option in some menu to deactivate it and use the old Desktop again.

I must say, that I found most things said here, very interesting: e.g. superbar and ribbon beeing useful. I don't want to be a hater, so don't get me wrong, but why does any company nowadays have to bring the new stuff, that just throws every MB of RAM outta the window, and cease the old good stuff? (this fits to Metro and Aero as well as Unity under Ubuntu. Why not keeping the good old GNOME 2 feel?) XP was quite useful and usable. The Superbar is quite odd, Vista didn't work out so well - very obvious mistakes have been made but it released anyways. Someone finds a week after release first serious issues and leeks - (like IE9) WTF! Where are the good old times, where you buy a piece of software and it just works, without you requiring to update and download tons of new stuff, that you will never use or you will never see again, but as decreasing number behind "free disk space".

But I guess I'm pretty off topic here. I like the one with videos best. How do you capture BlueScreens? I think there has to be serious bugfixing going on before we should start any PR to the public. But beeing more warm and open to new ones, and even old ones would be nice. Like this one guy say in his signature: "the quality work people worked hard for, is nearly always ignored by the developers" (or something like that ;) )

PurpleGurl
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by PurpleGurl »

SomeGuy wrote:An important thing to remember is that even if you buy it used or recycle a license you own, after a time Microsoft WILL stop activating it. Some people prefer to believe that Microsoft will be generous and either keep activating or make a patch available so activation is not needed... obviously these people are delusional but they need to be made aware of the fact that XP will cease being an option at all.
But if you have certain brand name computers (Dell, eg.), you can use XP indefinitely as long as the computers last, since they use a hardware dependent activation scheme (checks for BIOS DMI information).

It would be nice if Microsoft would let you reinstall your XP or install an unused copy of it on a new system after they cease to provide support, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I think I would rather play the lottery.

So that is certainly a point in favor of Reactos, since it may run on somewhat older systems (probably not 486 and older dinosaurs), and there will never be any product activation. That is what would be good once we get into multiple processor support. Microsoft places artificial limits based on license levels, whereas our limits are most based on learning curves and hardware limitations, or compatibility.

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jonaspm
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by jonaspm »

I like ribbon too, i find it useful and easy to use in programs with lot of functions

naums
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by naums »

In fact - Microsoft can't cease activation at least in Germany. They stopped support and they stopped updating it. In Germany: if you buy anything you have the right on using it your whole life ("lifetime"). So if someone wants to install it, and has the balls to sue them, they probably will be sued. And they'll loose.

SomeGuy
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by SomeGuy »

I'm not so sure of that. Their activation is a service that requires infrastructure at Microsoft. Microsoft can not reasonably be expected to maintain such infrastructure forever.

Just as an example, I read that recently they shut down the old active update systems for Windows 9x. Those weren't just dumb FTP servers (too bad, because then they would have been easy to mirror), but rather servers with custom, interactive, intelligent code. Such systems left unmaintained pose a severe security risk, and still cost money for servers/electricity/bandwidth/etc.

Additionally, they have obvious financial motivation to make people buy new computers and new copies of Windows. If you add it all up, what they get is large enough it greatly outweighs the risk of paying some pittance fine from some tiny little lawsuit.

It will be interesting to see what actually happens when they officially end all XP support. But right now nobody - not you, not me - knows what Microsoft will actually do. If Microsoft has made some official statement regarding what they will do, then please post it here. Until then people should take the safe bet and assume that activation will cease.

There are more programs than I can count out there that are no longer usable due to companies going out of business or ending support where the product can no longer be "activated" or depended on a service which is no longer there. Microsoft could never be forced to be an exception.

BTW, I actually stumbled across a site with details about the OEM's hardware activation just the other day. I never encountered this before because I always build my systems from generic parts. It's totally unfair. :evil:

PurpleGurl
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by PurpleGurl »

SomeGuy wrote:I'm not so sure of that. Their activation is a service that requires infrastructure at Microsoft. Microsoft can not reasonably be expected to maintain such infrastructure forever.
...
BTW, I actually stumbled across a site with details about the OEM's hardware activation just the other day. I never encountered this before because I always build my systems from generic parts. It's totally unfair. :evil:
Certain pre-activated makes of PCs don't use activation through Microsoft. The Dell Dimension will be able to run XP forever. The installer and Winlogon.exe check to see if the machine is prelicensed and skips activation. In fact, this is how some unscrupulous types have gotten around activation. They trick Windows into thinking it is a prelicensed machine, thus skipping activation altogether. Besides the obvious problem of legality with this approach, it possibly introduces another problem - driver compatibility. The correct driver might not install, and an incorrect driver that might install (assuming it will even attempt to install) may BSOD the system.

I've reinstalled XP on my neighbor's Dell so many times, and it has never asked for a product key nor ever said anything about being activated. However, the difference is in the machine, not the Windows files. If you try installing Dell's version of Windows on another machine, it will ask for your key and tell you that you must activate. The only downside is that you won't be able to run it on nicer hardware.

As for upgrades and stuff, well, if you already have the patches copied somewhere, then you can use them for as long as you want too. Their WGA only applies to when you download them. Very few things check for WGA status when you install them, and if Windows is hard-coded to already be activated on certain machines, even that won't be an issue.

The name brand stuff from manufacturers who already bought the license rights from Microsoft and comes with Windows have an advantage. Windows checks their BIOS information and does not require activation on them. Removing activation support won't affect these particular machines, and if you already have all the patches (or slip-streamed your own version of Windows which includes ALL the latest patches), then you are set. I slip-streamed a copy, not because of this, but because of trying to do a repair install of IE after upgrading the service pack. They would ask you to insert a CD which does not exist and call your original CD the wrong one. So the only way to get that to work would be to take the SP3 upgrade and the SP2 CD and merge them into a new CD image.

Still, I'd like to see us create an OS which will run on somewhat older hardware and not have activation nor artificial hardware limits based on which flavor you purchase (home, corporate, enterprise, etc). That is where we come in.

SomeGuy
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by SomeGuy »

There is also a corporate version of Windows XP that does not require activation, but as far as I know, no such beast exists for Vista, 2008, or 7. The catch though is that WGA can still shut you down if the corporate key is published on the internet or if the key expires at the end of the corporate support contract.

Technically WGA can shut you down for any reason it feels like, even if the product is properly licensed and activated. Very scary stuff, it has happened before. It will be interesting to see if they also use WGA to shut down Windows XP after support ends. Although it is more likely they will just pull the plug on the XP update servers.

Thankfully it is possible to legitimately update Windows XP with the WSUS Offline Update program, so when the last patch rolls off the assembly line people can archive it all off in one easy to install program. It also avoids the WGA malware.

I keep an almost identical spare computer around so that in the event of a hardware meltdown I can simply plop the hard drive, or a backup, in to the spare and instantly be back in business. With normal XP/Vista/7 and generic components this is impossible. I would have to reactivate and run the risk of being flagged as a "pirate". (Or install a modded BIOS that makes it look like I have an OEM hardware license, and that is still not a sure thing)

Many people including myself would pay good money for a current Windows license that did not require activation or risk WGA shutdown. But since that is not going to happen, we have to hope ReactOS or Wine under Linux/MacOS will become good enough to run certain Windows-only applications.

Z98
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by Z98 »

It exists. It's called Enterprise edition.

PurpleGurl
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Re: PR Ideas

Post by PurpleGurl »

Okay, so we covered OEM licenses and WGA. WGA and activation are good reasons to move to ReactOS, and a good PR point.

Just making ReactOS more compatible with more hardware would go a long ways to public relations. I noticed the lull as of late. I guess there is a lot of behind the scenes activity to try to fix regressions or something. Sometimes slowed commits can be a good sign, that serious research or troubleshooting is in the works. Other times, it just means more non-ReactOS commitments.

I have no idea if the current revisions will run on either of my machines. I still haven't activated the new one yet (though I am using it), since I'd like to get my hardware close to what I will want to continue using. Technically, you only have 30 days, but you can reset that timer up to 3 times. I'd like a different video card and 2 more sticks of memory to make use of all the channels, and for the video card to work properly, that might take a power supply and possibly a monitor (still using CRT, and few new cards have VGA plugs).

Any more PR ideas to get more people interested in our project and to get more support, whether it is funding or skilled programmers?

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