Webkit-based MSHTML?

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PurpleGurl
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Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by PurpleGurl » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:32 am

Another idea that had popped in my mind as I read about Chromium, and Webkit (the rendering engine that Chrome uses), I got to wondering, could Webkit be adapted to make a more efficient MSHTML than we are using? (Assuming of course we are not already using it for that.)

I found similar discussion here:
http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55313

http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44675

Now the thing is, I don't know how to code in C nor C++, and I don't know what is involved with MSHTML. It is a vital component, and if Webkit is the most compatible and robust of the 3 choices (two if you only include FOSS/GPL/LGPL/BSD licenses), then I wonder if it could be used to boost the performance of a number of other things. I know a wrapper was discussed, but why not simply recode the entry points or whatever? It seems that might be cleaner and faster unless Trident and Webkit use different APIs altogether. Then that could get messy. If nothing else, it would be nice if an independent team would take up converting Webkit to work as MSHTML as a Windows drop-in replacement. That could help us all - Reactos, the Spanish fork (WoOS), Wine, and even Windows users. If I am not mistaken, Webkit has already documented the Trident peculiarities and can be adapted to duplicate them if necessary.

If anyone wants to discuss this, it would be nice to keep it civil. In the second thread listed, it started to get heated and we don't need that. I don't know it if using a Webkit rewrite for MSHTML would cause the MSHTML-related bug to manifest differently or not. I understand it isn't so much in MSHTML as it is in other components.

EmuandCo
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by EmuandCo » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:56 pm

If someone volunteers, feel free to. I don't see a reason to dump the Mozilla based mshtml we have
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naums
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by naums » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:49 pm

I just wanted to say .. We have Gecko, which is about as good as webkit. And Webkit is mainly developed by Apple. Based on QT Webkit and KHTML and then Apple did stuff with it ... there you have webkit.

milon
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by milon » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:05 pm

naums wrote:I just wanted to say .. We have Gecko, which is about as good as webkit. And Webkit is mainly developed by Apple. Based on QT Webkit and KHTML and then Apple did stuff with it ... there you have webkit.
We're using Gecko? Oh. I didn't know that.
http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/ ... 18990.html

PurpleGurl
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by PurpleGurl » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:07 am

EmuandCo wrote:If someone volunteers, feel free to. I don't see a reason to dump the Mozilla based mshtml we have
I agree. I was thinking more in terms of performance, and in the off chance that it might help draw attention to the bug (or it might tell us nothing new). Webkit, or at least the Chromium mods to it are probably the most robust out there. It would be nice to have something like that to drop into Windows for those who are stuck with it.

I do wonder how compatible it is with Windows. I mean, if I was to go to my system32 folder and put the much smaller Reactos one in there, how would my system behave?

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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by EmuandCo » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:42 pm

It's not smaller, you need the gecko engine, too. It's bein loaded in second stage setup. And it works fine in windows xp.
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naums
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by naums » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:14 pm

Webkit, or at least the Chromium mods to it are probably the most robust out there.
I'm not the guy quoting everything, but ... Webkit and robust? Do you mean stable? Gecko (Firefox) is way more stable... if I compare how often Chromium kills a guy named Joe, or Jim, or Jack ... (don't care) and the engine crashes leaving me back in a violett page with white letters on it... "Jim, he's dead" ... well - damn. Firefox doesn't kill guys named joe/jack/jim. whoever. Firefox may be slower than Chromium, but it doesn't kill noone.

In my opionion Gecko is way more stable than Webkit (Chromium).

Regards Naums

Sof_T
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by Sof_T » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:53 pm

Off topic but is that the latest Chrome? I've not had it crash for a couple of months of heavy usage, previously it did it all the time.

PurpleGurl
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by PurpleGurl » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:34 am

naums wrote:
Webkit, or at least the Chromium mods to it are probably the most robust out there.
I'm not the guy quoting everything, but ... Webkit and robust? Do you mean stable? Gecko (Firefox) is way more stable... if I compare how often Chromium kills a guy named Joe, or Jim, or Jack ... (don't care) and the engine crashes leaving me back in a violett page with white letters on it... "Jim, he's dead" ... well - damn. Firefox doesn't kill guys named joe/jack/jim. whoever. Firefox may be slower than Chromium, but it doesn't kill noone.

In my opionion Gecko is way more stable than Webkit (Chromium).

Regards Naums
I meant robust (performance), not stability. Stability is not really the issue per se. Chrome just tends to be greedy. I suspect it has memory leaks. The biggest challenge for any browser is the 3rd party extensions. That is where most browser memory leaks tend to be found. There are workarounds in how Flash and JAVA extensions are coded. What happens is that the chain of memory custody gets lost between the OS, the browser, and the extensions. The browser may not know when an extension is misbehaving or using up too much memory, so if the extension doesn't crash, then it may keep leaking until the browser crashes. I have never had Chrome to crash on my system, but many do. My neighbor liked it well at first, but found it was not stable and a friend of hers agreed. Yet, I noticed a couple of differences in our machines. Hers is a Dell dimension with maybe 512 MB and a Pentium 4. Mine is an Athlon 64 dual core with 2 GB RAM. So a little over twice the CPU performance and 4 times the RAM. So I suspect memory was part of it, and I know she uses sites like Facebook and plays the games. As a power user, I monitor the task manager a lot while using it, so I know when there are memory leaks or excessive CPU usage and know when to kill apps before things get too bad. Others aren't as savvy and tend to experience more crashes.

Lets also not confuse the rendering engine with the browsers which use them. It is not the rendering engine's fault for how a browser as a whole handles memory and plugins, nor is it the renderer's fault if the JAVA or Flash interpreter's code is buggy or if the scripts are buggy. Chromium is not the only Webkit browser.

Now, I noticed that the mshtml.dll file of Reactos is about 1/5 the size of the one in Windows. If I was to play with it in my Windows installation, the what other files would I need to copy as well? One of the responses in this thread implies that our version is in multiple parts.

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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by jonaspm » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:03 am

i like Gecko
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PascalDragon
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by PascalDragon » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:24 pm

naums wrote:I'm not the guy quoting everything, but ... Webkit and robust? Do you mean stable? Gecko (Firefox) is way more stable... if I compare how often Chromium kills a guy named Joe, or Jim, or Jack ... (don't care) and the engine crashes leaving me back in a violett page with white letters on it... "Jim, he's dead" ... well - damn. Firefox doesn't kill guys named joe/jack/jim. whoever. Firefox may be slower than Chromium, but it doesn't kill noone.
As a sidenote: It's "He's dead, Jim" and it is a reference to the original Star Trek series, where Doctor McCoy often tells Captain Kirk (nicknamed "Jim" for "James") that someone (most prominently a disposable security officer ("redshirt")) is dead.

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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by Zc456 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:53 am

EmuandCo wrote:If someone volunteers, feel free to. I don't see a reason to dump the Mozilla based mshtml we have
Well, Mozilla dropped embedded support Gecko, and WebKit is much more portable as well as faster.
Stay frosty, Squeaks.

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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by EmuandCo » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:26 pm

As i said, find someone implementing it and we will add it. Or make wine do so
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by TiKu » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:40 am

Please use Blink (THAT's what Chrome uses, not WebKit anymore, although they are still very similar) instead of WebKit or stay with Gecko. Why? Because Apple does not do much to improve WebKit. WebKit is becoming the new Internet Explorer 6.

PurpleGurl
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Re: Webkit-based MSHTML?

Post by PurpleGurl » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:32 am

TiKu wrote:Please use Blink (THAT's what Chrome uses, not WebKit anymore, although they are still very similar) instead of WebKit or stay with Gecko. Why? Because Apple does not do much to improve WebKit. WebKit is becoming the new Internet Explorer 6.
This thread is 4 years old. Blink was not exactly in use then. Plus, does Blink even have all the necessary API's to be a MSHTML replacement? In that case, you'd might have to get the missing ones from Webkit or Gecko.

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