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Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:40 pm
by Louigi Verona
Linux is a kernel. When the whole OS is called Linux - this is incorrect. The OS is named GNU, so the correct name would be GNU OS. But if you still want to give credit to Mr. Torvalds, GNU/Linux OS should be used.
This is not simply alternative wording. By underlining the leading role of the GNU Foundation in the development of GNU/Linux, we underline the principles of freedom behind the system. So I would suggest that this site which is dedicated to such a noble goal as creating a free Windows compatible OS would use more accurate wording please.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 am
by Stefan100
Kindly bug off. Please.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:31 am
by hto
Stefan100 wrote: Kindly bug off. Please.
This is still not quite polite answer. :)
Louigi Verona wrote: So I would suggest that this site which is dedicated to such a noble goal as creating a free Windows compatible OS would use more accurate wording please.
Where do you think 'Linux' should be replaced by 'GNU/Linux'? Actually, GNU is mentioned on http://www.reactos.org/en/about_whyreactos.html page. Remember, the term 'GNU/Linux' should not be used blindly everywhere.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:10 am
by Z98
Counterargument: There does not exist a "GNU" OS or a "Linux" OS. There is no requirement as far as I'm aware of that requires a distro to include either term in their name. Case in point, openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu, Knoppix, etc. Linux is used as a broad label for all of those distros since they all share the Linux kernel. This label is synonymous with calling many of the Windows OSes part of the NT family, where NT is the kernel. As the Linux kernel is certainly not part of the broader GNU project, and as the reference being used is in the context of the kernel that's the heart of the OS/distro, there is no reason to add "GNU" whenever we mention Linux.

And as an aside, I don't know about Colin, but as one of the web content maintainers, I personally am not going to bother with adding GNU whenever I refer to Linux distros in general. The claim as far as I'm concerned is flimsy at best.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:29 am
by ThePhysicist
Oh well,
We can probably agree that GNU/Linux is an OS (altough Ged might disagree on this). But GNU (explicitly without Linux) is not. A kernel is an integral part of an OS. ReactOS without it's kernel, would be - like GNU - useless. So when referring to the OS, Linux is not optional, it's integral.

Also I wonder at what place we should mention GNU when we were mentioning Linux. ReactOS is not Linux and not based on it. Do you want us to also explicitly mention that it's not GNU, either?
What is our relation to GNU? The GNU GPL, which ROS is released under. It's stated at several places. Anything else?

This seems to be pure harping on about principles.
GGAL.

Timo

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:22 am
by Louigi Verona
Hey guys!
No, this is not something I made up. If you want, here is http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/linux-gnu-freedom.html which explains the matter.

As for what changes - I would suggest changes in places where Linux is meant not as a kernel, but as an OS, like on the About ReactOS page in this sentence:

"MacOS X, Linux, BSD flavors and other UNIX derivates share a common heritage based on a more than three decades old design of a simple basic operating system, that has evolved over time into a complex structure."

Here clearly what was meant was GNU/Linux. I suggested the change because it puzzled me that people who are developing a free operating system would misuse the term.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:24 am
by Louigi Verona
Yeah, and it is also important to know that GNU/Linux is not a UNIX derivative - it was written from scratch but was designed to be compatible with UNIX.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:39 am
by Louigi Verona
Sorry, the link I gave earlier is not so good. Here is a better, shorter FAQ on the matter: http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:31 am
by Elledan
Nobody uses GNU/Linux to refer to Linux distros except perhaps 1% of those who have heard of or used Linux.

Give it up, it's a non-issue. Nobody cares that what is meant with 'GNU/Linux' is a functional OS and not a mere kernel. People are plenty happy with using 'Linux' and 'Linux kernel' to address these. Let's not forget that what really makes up a Linux distribution is a huge pile of randomly collected shovelware from all corners of the internet, at least if LFS is any indication ;)

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:11 am
by Lone_Rifle
Please do not triple post. The edit button is to the top right of the post you wish to edit. In addition, we are aware of the argument that GNU makes for the use of the GNU/Linux name, so there is little need to post it here. The term is Linux is used since it is probably more widely recognised than something that the Free Software Foundation came up with just so that they can gain some credit from its popularity. Personally, I find your faith in taking an organisation's claim to an operating system as the gospel truth without verification from 3rd parties disturbing.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:44 am
by Louigi Verona
Thanks for the tip on the Edit button, I searched for it but couldn't find it until your advice.
Personally, I find your faith in taking an organisation's claim to an operating system as the gospel truth without verification from 3rd parties disturbing.
I did a verification. Moreover, I am in touch with many people who are developing apps for GNU/Linux and were developing for many years. It is very important to understand that the operating system is not the kernel - the kernel is just one part of it. Actually, the development of the operating system by GNU Project is very well documented, so your argument only shows you did not do research and relied on third parties - no offence meant, but I believe this to be true.

On the other hand my suggestion is just a suggestion. I am not running ReactOS website so if everyone refuses to make changes - there is nothing I can do. All I ask is to consider the issue. It is not so difficult to correct the error - much more difficult to fight over it here, really.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:52 pm
by Lone_Rifle
And perhaps the reason why it's so difficult to fight is that nobody cares.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:59 pm
by EmuandCo
Shall I be honest? I don't care if theres GNU/Linux or Linux written on our Page. I don't even care that this mess called Linux exists, but I care of one thing. All normal ppl know the Name Linux and that's what counts. We don't care about GNU and especially not about Linux and the community member's opinion what we shall use on our Site. If there suddently show up some uuuber perfectionist Script Kiddies, I would suggest we completely remove the name and replace it with *nix and everyone here and noone there will be happy. Problem solved, next topic.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:16 pm
by Z98
And I argue that the line you quoted did not mean "GNU/Linux," it meant systems based off the Linux kernel. And since we are solely using the Linux kernel as the identifier, there is no reason to include GNU.

Re: Change Linux to GNU/Linux on the website

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:33 pm
by Louigi Verona
Very well.