Hobbies can become more...

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, drop it in here. (not to be used as a chat/nonsense section)

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nute
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Hobbies can become more...

Post by nute »

I hear "you are a troll, this is just a hobby, shut up." Hmm, not very civil,
especially uncivil if I put some of the more colorful words people have used
up. And what's the point of defending one's hobby as being as meaningful
or as pointless as I desire it to be? Since when is someone else saying I
want to see this hobby go somewhere so offensive anyways?

I will ask my reasonable questions one more time, maybe I'll get a better answer
this time:

1) Where do you see ReactOS going in 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, or more years?

2) What do the developers want to fix and how long do they hope to fix
that in?

3) Why is this "just a hobby" when in fact a Windows compatible operating
system free or not that doesn't come from Microsoft has a great deal of
appeal to many people? I don't even think the surface of what can be
raised, enough to pay people to work on this project, has been scratched.

4) Does calling someone a troll make them anymore a troll than calling someone
Jesus Christ would make that true? No, it doesn't. If I'm trolling in the sense
that I ask questions and want answers, I'm doing exactly what the forum says
I can do. Asking ReactOS related questions is what the general discussion
forum is for, or am I mistaken?

As far as saying, "this is my hobby, offending me could cause me to quit," I'm
the least of your problems. Look at yourself, if you aren't serious about what you
are doing and you don't truly enjoy doing it, you'll quit sooner or later regardless of
what I do/don't say.

I question the we can't raise enough funds to pay someone to make ReactOS
their day job. That is exactly what needs to be done to grease the skids so that
this hobby becomes something respectable sooner than later. I don't think I'm
alone in that I'd be more willing to make a donation to this project if I knew it
was going toward paying someone to do professional work to push this project
forward. Private groups fund highway improvement projects, why not ReactOS?

Z98
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by Z98 »

As a favor to me, mind waiting until I get back in about two hours to write a response to this post before all of you jump on this.

Ged
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by Ged »

This just keeps getting funnier and funnier.
I love this forum!

Z98
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by Z98 »

To those that waited, thanks. I'm also going to ask that nute get a chance to reply to my post, cause all things considered, I would prefer not to deal with any more fights between him and the rest of the forum.

To nute:

Reasonable is a very subjective thing.

1) Who knows? You're asking us to speculate, and few people on the team are willing to do so that far ahead. You've also had a tendency to interpret speculation as set in stone intentions and come back asking why what was speculated didn't occur.

2) You will not get the detailed answers you want by asking this on the forum or the mailing list. The only chance you have is if you interact directly with a developer on IRC, and that's if they have the time to discuss at length with you.

3) If you believe it is so easy to raise money, especially in this economic environment, well.... Let's put this into perspective. The major players out there like IBM, Google, Novell, Red Hat, etc, all have reason to want to break the hold of MS in their respective markets. For IBM, this is in the service/contractor sector, and they pretty much already have done that. Not only that, but IBM has a strategic, vested interest in Unix and Linux, whereas if ReactOS succeeds, we actually pose a far greater threat to Linux than MS would. So right there, IBM, Red Hat, Novell, and any other company that centers their business around Linux would not want us to succeed. For that matter, the focus of many groups in the open source and free software movement has been to break dependency on MS tech. ROS would effectively increase that dependency. Then there's Google. Google is Linux-centric in that the majority of its engineers and programmers build stuff on the Linux platform. Chrome is a pretty big exception, but on the backend Google is a Linux heavyweight. But they also have their own platform, Android, and combined with their other projects and products, they do not need to directly take on Windows on the desktop market to maintain their current position. Even if they did, well, again, they've got their own platform that they can promote. Then there's all the other companies that build on the MS platform. What reason do they have to want to help us? MS provides a lot of support to them, something that we cannot replicate, and our platform is nowhere as stable. There may be a few POS vendors that we could entice, but so far the few that have approached us have yet to follow through with any discussions.

Don't presume that we haven't pursued funding options. There has been discussions with certain companies and even governments. However, from the perspective of the companies ROS is still too much of a R&D style project for them to easily commercialize, and governments, well, those things tend to move damn slow. But the money needed to reproduce something that MS has spent billions developing is not easy to come by. If we're talking salaries here, we're looking at the equivalent of $60,000 to $100,000+ a year for each developer. The skillset needed to do this work is not readily available, and the majority of people who have it do mostly commercial work. Lining up that kind of funding is not easy, and combined with the very real possibility that MS will try to sue us, significantly reduces our chances of lining up extensive funding.

4) You are trolling in the sense that you believe nothing is your fault. Multiple times you interpret humorous remarks as been personal attacks and responded in kind, and then insisting that other people misunderstand you when it was you who first misunderstood. Your writings often demonstrate a lack of sensitivity and yet at the same time you demand others be sensitive when dealing with you. Your persistence in asking the questions wouldn't be so problematic either, except you seem to ignore any answers that do not satisfy you and repeat the question as if hoping the answer will change. You've generated a reputation here amongst the oldtimers, and your continued unchanging behavior only reinforces their impression of you as a troll.

Whether you consider this project respectable is of course up to you. The project has made considerable accomplishments over the past few years and will continue to do so. The developers that are currently part of the project take pride in their work, but they decide what that work entails. Your insistence on "professional" work is not helping, as it implies that the work the developers are doing is "unprofessional" and thus somehow inferior. The fact that several feel insulted by that implication is not surprising. Nor is it even clear what exactly "professional" is supposed to mean. So long as the developers produce working code, that's about all I care about.

On the other hand, if your definition of "professional" means adherence to some supreme schedule that must be adhered to at all cost, then you will find very little support for such an approach. The reason the developers take part in this project is because they enjoy it, and trying to enforce a schedule on them just for the sake of a schedule will ruin that enjoyment, especially when such a schedule/timeline is not needed to guarantee forward progress in the project.

Ged
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by Ged »

haha, someone took the bait ;)

Lone_Rifle
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by Lone_Rifle »

nute wrote: 1) Where do you see ReactOS going in 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, or more years?
We don't know.
nute wrote: 2) What do the developers want to fix and how long do they hope to fix
that in?
We don't know.
nute wrote: 3) Why is this "just a hobby" when in fact a Windows compatible operating
system free or not that doesn't come from Microsoft has a great deal of
appeal to many people? I don't even think the surface of what can be
raised, enough to pay people to work on this project, has been scratched.
Because a lot of us have other interesting things to do.
nute wrote: 4) Does calling someone a troll make them anymore a troll than calling someone
Jesus Christ would make that true? No, it doesn't. If I'm trolling in the sense
that I ask questions and want answers, I'm doing exactly what the forum says
I can do. Asking ReactOS related questions is what the general discussion
forum is for, or am I mistaken?
Not relevant to this discussion. Relevant questions were 1-3, and have been summarily answered. Ignored.

GoBusto
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by GoBusto »

2) What do the developers want to fix and how long do they hope to fix that in?
Technically, the answer should be "everything" and "the time that it takes to get to 1.0.0"

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EmuandCo
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by EmuandCo »

"When its done!"
And when he asks again, I will ban his ass to the moon!
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

Ged
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by Ged »

Well firstly, we don't ban in this forum.
Secondly, nute is far too much fun to ever consider banning.

This forum would be boring without him and I look forward to his posts.
They're almost as funny as the people who feel the need to reply to him.

Brilliant, long live nute :)

hto
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Post by hto »

+1 hehe
one time it was annoing for me to see the same questions again and again, but now things are getting better and better, it becomes a pleasure to read it. :)

vicmarcal
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by vicmarcal »

+1
Naahh Dreimer..he is now just funny,look,he made saying yourself funny sentences: "I will ban his ass to the moon" rofl
Next time it will be "to Mars" or to "ReactOS 1.0 release"...
Btw, if he would asks again the same questions i will copy-paste the same hto-answers. Maybe he will realize one day that the answers arent changing at all.

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EmuandCo
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by EmuandCo »

As you wish. You can keep your toy. ;-)
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

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Black_Fox
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Re: Hobbies can become more...

Post by Black_Fox »

vicmarcal wrote:Btw, if he would asks again the same questions i will copy-paste the same hto-answers.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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