Element Software partnership?

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panda84
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by panda84 »

patternjake was very kind of informing us that he was using ReactOS when it wasn't mandatory
We also (kindly) asked for any proof of what he was (pretending to be) working on was for real. He was talking about unbelivable features that aren't practically feasibile in a short time even by big team of expert programmers (think of the dimensions and the public documentation around a project like Wine), moreover he was always giving out vague description with no tecnical details in them. Also no evidence of the team has never been given, quite the contrary.

Believe me: a real kernel developer can see if another one is for real or not. Element OS never existed. Please prove me wrong with facts, not words.

Haos
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Haos »

1. patternjake was very kind of informing us that he was using ReactOS when it wasn't mandatory
Experimenting, not using, afaik. I havent seen any proof of him, using ReactOS in any way.

2. he had a whole team to work on finding and fixing problems in ReactOS that he could have corrected in the original OS later
Any proof? Same as above, all we have is patternjake's words, while his credibility is suffering.

3. he and his team suffered all your critics without saying a thing, nicely responding to your insults
His "team" that we lack any proof of existence? All criticizing was always an effect of us catching him on false promises or outright lying (we do remember fake gnome screens...) I dont remember him explaining any of those situations in a logical manner...

4. now he couldn't take it any more and dropped the project
The project of which we have never seen any proof existence. So easy to drop...
5. it's your fault... and I'm not saying that to insult you, but to make you look inside and wonder if you really didn't do any mistakes while chatting on this thread.
You can blame me.

Ged
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Ged »

PetruDimitriu wrote:That's a problem with today's programmers, their mind is pretty linear
And the problem with people like you is you're too niave. If patternjake told you he had $100000 to donate to reactos, would you have believed that too?

You're the kind of person why this whole thread made me angry. You believed all this stuff and now you feel dissapointed. That's unfair to you.

Trust me, this was never going to happen. Don't be dissapointed.

jorl17
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by jorl17 »

This is just plain silly. Right when this whole thing started I doubted its truthfulness. The more I dug into that website, the stranger and unprofessional things looked. I tried to show that with my first post in this thread -- I was quite confident that there was no such thing as ElementOS. Yet, I did not want to compromise any patches that could, hypothetically, come to ReactOS, so I sat still and waited without saying anything explicitly.

Eventually someone did expose my point-of-view -- then I spoke. I may be a nobody to you but I believe you should hear me when I say something: Close this thread.

It's useless to go on arguing about this. Do you want my opinion? Screw you if you don't: "I think the project never existed (at such a big scale) in the first place". Where are we going with these opinions of ours? NOWHERE. They are merely non-deductive logic statements which cannot be proven right, nor wrong (even though they can be considered strong or weak). Why bother with yet-another flamewar? Clearly both sides hate each other now -- fine, go bang your heads against a wall, I'll be the first to do so if I have to.

Does it please you to see the other party sweat and taste the loss of a "battle in this flamewar"? Is that it? Is that why this forum has to be fiddled with flamewars caused by both parties -- a continuous lack of patience, intelligence, humility and respect for others? Heck, if that's it, I can predict a massive bashing of my own post right now -- or a dark black-hole-of-no-response.

I hope all of you understand that this isn't going anywhere.

Ged
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Ged »

jorl17 wrote:It's useless to go on arguing about this. Do you want my opinion? Screw you if you don't
Comon, there's no need for that.
jorl17 wrote: Where are we going with these opinions of ours? NOWHERE. They are merely non-deductive logic statements which cannot be proven right, nor wrong (even though they can be considered strong or weak). Why bother with yet-another flamewar? Clearly both sides hate each other now -- fine, go bang your heads against a wall, I'll be the first to do so if I have to.

Does it please you to see the other party sweat and taste the loss of a "battle in this flamewar"? Is that it? Is that why this forum has to be fiddled with flamewars caused by both parties -- a continuous lack of patience, intelligence, humility and respect for others? Heck, if that's it, I can predict a massive bashing of my own post right now -- or a dark black-hole-of-no-response.

I hope all of you understand that this isn't going anywhere.
omg, you need to chill out, your post seems like you want to initiate a flame war. This is a discussion forum and this thread is a fairly civilized discussion. You can't just close threads because you think 'they aren't going anywhere'.

Just stop reading this thread if it bothers you.

Lone_Rifle
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Lone_Rifle »

Can you guys please stop posting to this thread, you're clogging up my new forum thread feed. This guy promised something, refused to give further details other than screenshots, canned the project within five days of announcing progress, and was unusually defensive when we asked about patches/source/proof of existence. That's it. No further questions, comments, typos or death threats. Alright? Let it go. You all are the reason why I have major disdain for the forums.

Ged
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Ged »

Lone_Rifle wrote:Can you guys please stop posting to this thread, you're clogging up my new forum thread feed. This guy promised something, refused to give further details other than screenshots, canned the project within five days of announcing progress, and was unusually defensive when we asked about patches/source/proof of existence. That's it. No further questions, comments, typos or death threats. Alright? Let it go. You all are the reason why I have major disdain for the forums.
Maybe you should also stop coming then, instead of replying to the vast majority of threads with the rather unhelpful response of 'no'

It's a discussion forum. People are here to discuss things.

Lone_Rifle
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Lone_Rifle »

There's only one reason why I peruse the forums, and that is to maintain the Chinese forum, and to get in touch with vicmarcal at work, since I can't use the mailing lists and IRC at work. Most of my other forum posts are to challenge whoever it is I reply to to rethink what they just posted.

patternjake will probably go down in history for being the most plausible candidate to succeed Derek Smart.

vicmarcal
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by vicmarcal »

Lone_Rifle wrote:... and to get in touch with vicmarcal at work, since I can't use the mailing lists and IRC at work..
<3 "Love is in the air.."

And now..seriously let´s stop making a war of nothing ;)...
Btw, have you heard about a new Design Forum to reshack ReactOS explorer.exe and change the icons to new icons instead Tango-old-fashioned?
Spamming...hehe

patternjake
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by patternjake »

Completely right : I did not have to say that I was using ReactOS as a base for the explorer. BUT, in all fairness, ReactOS is an open source project, so, any modifications that would have to be made to get the explorer to work on ReactOS successfully would have to be posted back to ReactOS, WHICH I WAS PLANNING TO DO.

I DID NOT REFUSE to post patches back to ReactOS, in time, if the project still continued, As soon as the binary release went online, the patches would have been provided. These patches were merely workarounds to get objects in the explorer to display properly. We also did some minor patch to some entry points for the login screen, I would have happily posted these patches, but since we have decided to cancel the project in its original form, it is no longer nessecary.

The GNOME was an experiment. We were experimenting with a linux WINE build to see how we could get several UI demonstrations to work on wine without hitches. We decided (in kindness, since we thought it would help) to move BACK to ReactOS and build against its version of the modified WINE userland. We updated the site with screenshots of ElementOS in its working form on ReactOS. Believe them or not, they were real. (The credibilty will be backed up since the shell will be released soon)

We had a confusion of the GPL license version. We indeed thought that any derivaritve works could include propertitory components, but , after giving the ReactOS terms further research, We had to immediatly cancel the project since we knew it could go nowhere, the project could not be released unless we open sourced our components. That is simply not an option for us.

I got shirty because of Geds very unnessecary comments, I do have a team, heck I even paid someone through PayPal for doing work for me the other day. I do not feel I should discuss other workers of Element Software, unless they feel they should be. Its all about protocol.

This is a free world (I think) and anyone can respond to this explaination in any way, shape or form that they like.

Just because the project was not officialy released, it does not mean it is not real.

Sorry, but how on EARTH does deviantART even relate to this discussion??? I was very unfairly removed from deviantART because of some peoples very selfish and unethical behaviour, and continously reported any nice comment I made to any users as spam, therefore deviantARTs spam controller automatically removing my account. At the end, before that, I had many haters who got their backs up since I did not release some projects for them personally *which deemed not on time for them* at the time, I had become ill, and gave up with deviantART. In some ways, my removal from DA did me some favors, and allowed me to continue without having to check back at peoples spiteful comments.

Anyway, you all wanted an explanation, and you all got one. Im very sorry that I made many promises and didnt deliver, but I hope that the release of Element Desktop later this year will make up for that. :(

off topic : Anyone seen Google Wave and Google Chrome OS yet? They look rather promising! Shame I did not get an invite though. Anyone get an invite here?

Dillxn
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:44 pm

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Dillxn »

I'm a bit confused here.
patternjake used the sourcecode from your open source project to attempt his own project.
He followed your license agreement.
And you're upset? Maybe I'm missing something here but what exactly is the problem?
I've checked out his work and it seems like some really nifty stuff.
He's just a developer, guys. Why are you mad that he used your project in an avenue that you guys provided?
And so what if he made a claim that wasn't proven to be true? We don't know if it happened or not, but ultimately it's just a claim. Why are you guys upset about that?

[ external image ]

ironek69
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by ironek69 »

We all know by now, that you are programmer. Maybe it would be good for your PR on this forum, if you would help improving R-os by giving patches. Forget about Elementos, help Reactos in your spare time and get rid of persona non grata status?

The123king
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by The123king »

ironek69 wrote:We all know by now, that you are programmer. Maybe it would be good for your PR on this forum, if you would help improving R-os by giving patches. Forget about Elementos, help Reactos in your spare time and get rid of persona non grata status?
Actually, that's a cracking idea. Just do it for fun, and maybe even license your apps/code under the LGPL or maybe an MIT license, so your components can be used in proprietary works (EG element Software apps) ;)

panda84
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by panda84 »

I DID NOT REFUSE to post patches back to ReactOS, in time, if the project still continued, As soon as the binary release went online, the patches would have been provided. These patches were merely workarounds to get objects in the explorer to display properly. We also did some minor patch to some entry points for the login screen, I would have happily posted these patches, but since we have decided to cancel the project in its original form, it is no longer nessecary.
Can you please kindly post one of those patches? From what I understand you're not going to make any use of what was Element OS. So can you please post just one single patch to get an idea of the work?

Thanks.

Haos
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Haos »

Dillxn wrote:I'm a bit confused here.
patternjake used the sourcecode from your open source project to attempt his own project.
He followed your license agreement.
And you're upset? Maybe I'm missing something here but what exactly is the problem?
I've checked out his work and it seems like some really nifty stuff.
He's just a developer, guys. Why are you mad that he used your project in an avenue that you guys provided?
And so what if he made a claim that wasn't proven to be true? We don't know if it happened or not, but ultimately it's just a claim. Why are you guys upset about that?
He is allowed to do anything with our code the license permits. No one is giving a damn about it...
The real problem is that he started this thread on our forum and generated a large amount of false hopes. If you are bored, you should try to read this thread since page 1 and get some general idea about the hype created. What personally i am mad about, is that this hype was created only for marketing reason. Patternjake didn`t do anything bar promising (and not keeping up those promises), but yet managed to turn several of more trusting (and less cynical, compared to me) guys here on his side. When we turned more and more suspicious, he tried to turn them against us.

As for the GNOMEgate, you could probably still be able to recover cached version of ElementOS website, containg info about this OS being based on reworked ReactOS source AND containing screnshots clearly based on GNOME. After we discovered this and made it public, website was cleaned up.

Then, the release date, that was set several times and not keeped, the promise that patches will be submitted upstream WHEN the release goes public... all of this was posted here only to increase and upkeep the hype around ElementOS.

As more and more of patternjake lies is being discovered, i reserve myself whole bag of doubts, regarding his other statements, like the very existence of Element coding team, patternjake`s will to help us in any way, etc... especially if all of this exists ONLY in patternjake`s words, without ANY proof.

Now patternjake tries to convince everyone, that our cooperation broke because of us (ReactOS team) offending him.
There was no cooperation in the first place. So i think we have right to criticize person, who is outrightly cheating others on our forum.

If you feel offended, patternjake, why dont you just cut it out and stop posting crap on our forum? There are many good-hearted folks here, who still believe in opensource and idea of global cooperation within oss projects, do you have to abuse them in such nasty way?

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