Element Software partnership?

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Lone_Rifle
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Lone_Rifle »

Ged wrote:
patternjake wrote:Please, find evidence before throwing unnecessary comments.
http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 010#p60099
Those screenshots were old. In any case, anybody could throw together a convincing screenshot or video with the relevant tools.

vicmarcal
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by vicmarcal »

Lone_Rifle wrote: Those screenshots were old. In any case, anybody could throw together a convincing screenshot or video with the relevant tools.
Right, you only have to see the TMAx recorded presentation ;)

panda84
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by panda84 »

Please, find evidence before throwing unnecessary comments.
Ok, let's try with the first evidence I have in my hand.

STEP 1
Go to:
http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elemen ... ElementKit
STEP 2
Find that every single source version link points to:
http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elementkit/source/
which has just one package.
STEP 3
Download it:

Code: Select all

wget http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elementkit/source/ElementKit%202.2.9810.tar.gz
STEP 4
Calculate md5sum:

Code: Select all

md5sum ElementKit\ 2.2.9810.tar.gz
you get: 4d092cf30b0d3eb714e01c28ca9cc1c6
STEP 5
Google "4d092cf30b0d3eb714e01c28ca9cc1c6".
You get:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/ ... .7/MD5SUMS

Ok, now it's up to you to prove me wrong.

Pharaoh_Atem
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:33 am

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Pharaoh_Atem »

panda84 wrote:
Please, find evidence before throwing unnecessary comments.
Ok, let's try with the first evidence I have in my hand.

STEP 1
Go to:
http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elemen ... ElementKit
STEP 2
Find that every single source version link points to:
http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elementkit/source/
which has just one package.
STEP 3
Download it:

Code: Select all

wget http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elementkit/source/ElementKit%202.2.9810.tar.gz
STEP 4
Calculate md5sum:

Code: Select all

md5sum ElementKit\ 2.2.9810.tar.gz
you get: 4d092cf30b0d3eb714e01c28ca9cc1c6
STEP 5
Google "4d092cf30b0d3eb714e01c28ca9cc1c6".
You get:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/ ... .7/MD5SUMS

Ok, now it's up to you to prove me wrong.
What's wrong with rebranding Mozilla's engine? And, on top of that, ElementKit isn't identical to Gecko, it is modified.

MD5 checksums are not the most reliable. Use SHA1 or SHA256 to verify instead.

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Black_Fox
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Black_Fox »

panda84: MD5 is 16-byte checksum. There is a fair chance it will collide with (read "be the same as") a checksum from completely different file. Also point of having checksum is to check you downloaded the file correctly, not that you downloaded the right file :)

panda84
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by panda84 »

MD5 checksums are not the most reliable. Use SHA1 or SHA256 to verify instead.
MD5 is 16-byte checksum. There is a fair chance it will collide with (read "be the same as") a checksum from completely different file. Also point of having checksum is to check you downloaded the file correctly, not that you downloaded the right file
I know, but why didn't you check by yourselves?!?

Ok, so let's go one step further (please double check after me, elseway he can change the file on the server).

Code: Select all

wget http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elementkit/source/ElementKit%202.2.9810.tar.gz
sha1sum ElementKit\ 2.2.9810.tar.gz >sha1sum_elementkit
sha256 ElementKit\ 2.2.9810.tar.gz >sha256_elementkit
wget http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.7/src/mozilla-source-1.7.tar.gz
sha1sum mozilla-source-1.7.tar.gz >sha1sum_mozilla
sha256 mozilla-source-1.7.tar.gz >sha256_mozilla
diff sha1sum_elementkit sha1sum_mozilla
diff sha256_elementkit sha256_mozilla
This should be enough, but if you still don't believe me:

Code: Select all

mkdir elemsrc
tar xzf ElementKit\ 2.2.9810.tar.gz --directory elemsrc/
mkdir mozsrc
tar xzf mozilla-source-1.7.tar.gz --directory mozsrc
and then use a tool that can recursively diff directories like KDiff3.

So this is not rebranding: i call it cut and paste (and even not of the latest bugfix of an outdated and no longer supported browser).

Pharaoh_Atem
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:33 am

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Pharaoh_Atem »

panda84 wrote:
MD5 checksums are not the most reliable. Use SHA1 or SHA256 to verify instead.
MD5 is 16-byte checksum. There is a fair chance it will collide with (read "be the same as") a checksum from completely different file. Also point of having checksum is to check you downloaded the file correctly, not that you downloaded the right file
I know, but why didn't you check by yourselves?!?

Ok, so let's go one step further (please double check after me, elseway he can change the file on the server).

Code: Select all

wget http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elementkit/source/ElementKit%202.2.9810.tar.gz
sha1sum ElementKit\ 2.2.9810.tar.gz >sha1sum_elementkit
sha256 ElementKit\ 2.2.9810.tar.gz >sha256_elementkit
wget http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.7/src/mozilla-source-1.7.tar.gz
sha1sum mozilla-source-1.7.tar.gz >sha1sum_mozilla
sha256 mozilla-source-1.7.tar.gz >sha256_mozilla
diff sha1sum_elementkit sha1sum_mozilla
diff sha256_elementkit sha256_mozilla
This should be enough, but if you still don't believe me:

Code: Select all

mkdir elemsrc
tar xzf ElementKit\ 2.2.9810.tar.gz --directory elemsrc/
mkdir mozsrc
tar xzf mozilla-source-1.7.tar.gz --directory mozsrc
and then use a tool that can recursively diff directories like KDiff3.

So this is not rebranding: i call it cut and paste (and even not of the latest bugfix of an outdated and no longer supported browser).
Umm... Rebranding is essentially cut and paste. The only difference in rebranding is the logos and the name of the software. Sometimes, its a little deeper and some of the APIs are renamed, but overall, the package would remain exactly the same. They have every legal right to do just that.

They even admit to using Mozilla technology, but they can't say the actual trademarked names of what they used (Gecko, Firefox, etc.)

Besides, ElementKit isn't the real interesting stuff they have. ElementOS and Kestrel are. ElementOS will be using parts of ReactOS, and Kestrel is a totally new web browser engine done entirely from scratch.

panda84
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by panda84 »

Umm... Rebranding is essentially cut and paste. The only difference in rebranding is the logos and the name of the software. Sometimes, its a little deeper and some of the APIs are renamed, but overall, the package would remain exactly the same. They have every legal right to do just that.
I know they can. But actually no modification to the sources is in place, nor even branding. As the packages are identical I call it just mirroring of the same file with a different name.
Also I can't see the point of linking to the same file for different versions:
http://www.elementsoftware.co.uk/elemen ... ElementKit
ElementKit 3.0 | Source | Binary Element Desktop, Element Browser 2.5 (beta), eRecords, Element Talk
ElementKit 2.2 | Source | Binary Element Browser 2, eRecords, Element Talk, Element Desktop
ElementKit 2.1 | Source | Binary Element Browser 1.1x Series (Update), eRecords
ElementKit 2.0 | Source | Binary Element Browser 1.1x Series, eRecords
ElementKit 1.0 | Source | Binary Element Browser 1.0x Series
ElementOS and Kestrel are. ElementOS will be using parts of ReactOS, and Kestrel is a totally new web browser engine done entirely from scratch.
Of which no evidence has been given to nobody, right?

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Black_Fox
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Location: Czechia

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Black_Fox »

Looks like religious/UFO/duke nukem forever discussion, people arguing about something they don't even know if exists...

panda84
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by panda84 »

Looks like religious/UFO/duke nukem forever discussion, people arguing about something they don't even know if exists...
Infact, I'm just listing reason why I don't believe ElementOS and Kestrel exist...
I think just mirroring an old browser source code package is pointless and I haven't seen any of such behaviours from serious developers.

patternjake
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by patternjake »

panda84: ElementKit uses the same base of Mozilla 1.5 (Yes, it is an old build but we are going to upgrade it in the 3.0 release, check the status of the ElementKit 3.0 latest beta, the engine works differently), so we would provide the same package. The control source was recently uploaded again to the site.

Kestrel does indeed exist, and was sent out to many public testers a week ago. I am sure that If they discovered this forum, they would back that up.

I simply do NOT have the time to make up false projects and fake screenshots to awe viewers. What would be the point? I am simply stating progress and screenshots of REAL, existing works. I start working for my degree on the 1st september, so why would I go to all the trouble of providing fake screenshots, when I obviously will have to do alot of real work in the meatime.

Kestrel, like I said before, has been frozen (not stopped) because we are busy working on Element TotalProtect 2010 and its related websites and content. I am throwing all of Element Softwares current resources at the AV because I want to get it to a good standard by later this year. I cant do that and work on an OS as the same time.

Also Element Browser 2.5 Alpha was released yesterday, which eventually (probably by beta 1 stage) will have a Kestrel viewing mode built in. So youll eventually get to see kestrel in its working form soon.

I am not going to make a video since I dont have to prove that the project exists. View the earlier pages in this forum and you can see it running in a VM.

panda84
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by panda84 »

ElementKit uses the same base of Mozilla 1.5
Then, technically speaking, I can't see the point of building upon a 2003 software:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... se_history

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Black_Fox
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Location: Czechia

Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Black_Fox »

patternjake, people won't stop having doubts until they have the release in their hands, so don't lose time arguing and do what you find necessary.

jorl17
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by jorl17 »

Supported, and from my first posts in this thread, you can see that I already highly doubted this. FULLY DOUBTED. That's what made me fiddle with the linux and windows packages.

I may be wrong, and this may all exist, it even seems likely. Either way, may it be clear that I hardly believed any of what's been here.

Pisarz
Posts: 375
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Re: Element Software partnership?

Post by Pisarz »

I decided to test your "Element Browser". I will test it later, in virtual machine, but... can you tell my, why my Avira AntiVir detected infected files when I was trying to install your program? I have some screenshots.

[ external image ]
[ external image ]
[ external image ]

Maybe you should scan your computer with some sort of AntiVirus program, or just tell us, why you've put this infected files in Element Browser.

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