sorry to say that, but: ReactOS is a joke

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chrisv5
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:46 am

sorry to say that, but: ReactOS is a joke

Post by chrisv5 »

First, development is not slow, it is crawling without legs. 0.3.1. was announced for December, now we have march. The wording changed from "in a few days" to "within a week" (quite a few weeks passed since then). The various release candidates do not even boot. Hello? Even DOS can boot!

Please spare me "but it runs in Qemu" or "I have heard it runs in VMWare" and "hey, I have this exotic PC, it really boots ReactOS, no kidding"

I have more than half dozen PCs at my disposal. They all boot DOS, Windows XP, Linux, etc. None boots ReactOS.

back to slow development. It takes 3+ months (well, who knows how long it will really take?) from 0.3.0 to 0.3.1. You guys really want us to believe that you ever get to 1.0 before the last contributor to your fund raising has passed away?

I hurts me to say that but it seems that fund raising was just a scam to let a few developers travel this world freely. Boasting an OS to the public WHICH DOES NOT EVEN BOOT (much less run any application for real).

A very upset donor!

EDIT
A note from the project coordinator:
My attention was brought to your posts, which mostly contain "flame" and some braggin about software and hardware experience.
First of all, a $10 donation is of course a good one, but it does not provide a right to *demand* something or *draw conclusions* about the whole project.
Second, if your experience is really that big, and you are really of that age, then you would not be "flaming" but would rather look through the code and see how much is done and how much is left to do
And finally, you seem to have no knowledge about FOSS projects at all, and about history too (if you would be really that experienced and quite old in age already, you would know how Linux started, and saw it by your own eyes in the internet).

I never answer such posts in forums, but this time our developers asked me to state my opinion here.

This topic is closed.

A note from a mod

The thread is unlocked now, providing it doesn't get out of hand

PeterK
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:24 am

Re: sorry to say that, but: ReactOS is a joke

Post by PeterK »

chrisv5 wrote:"hey, I have this exotic PC, it really boots ReactOS, no kidding"
BootCD SVN 25750 works on DELL Optiplex GX 260 (I don't think it's exotic ..)
Also Prerelease 0.3.1 does that.

Newer versions ov SVN trunk do not work at the moment - trunk is development area !

Please keep in mind: my DELL works only with VGA driver selected on SETUP.
Onboard graphic chipset is INTEL and doesn't work with VESA driver - please test that option on Your PCs !
chrisv5 wrote:I have more than half dozen PCs at my disposal. They all boot DOS, Windows XP, Linux, etc. None boots ReactOS.
I also have more than half dozen PCs at my disposal.
But the older ones (650 Duron downto 200 MMX) do not work.

Please come down. Hardware dependant bugs are very hard to find.
Please post a list of Your PCs (PC model, or better: mainboard type)

Did You try
http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3498
or which ISO did You use ?

Thanks, Peter.

chrisv5
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:46 am

Re: sorry to say that, but: ReactOS is a joke

Post by chrisv5 »

PeterK wrote:Please keep in mind: my DELL works only with VGA driver selected on SETUP. Onboard graphic chipset is INTEL and doesn't work with VESA driver - please test that option on Your PCs !
I know that, I am aware of that thread
PeterK wrote: Did You try http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3498
or which ISO did You use ? Thanks, Peter.
I tried both "unofficial" release candidates (I guess we will never see official ones). I only tried the LiveCDs, all the computers are in daily use and I do not want to brick them just for trying.

The CPUs range from Pentium AMD K2, to Pentium III, Pentium 4, Pentium D, AMD Athlon to Pentium M. I do not know the motherboards, but the the two notebooks are Sony Vaio FX-405 and Acer Travelmate 3201

All I ever get to is the ReactOS logo. I do not know if the progress bar below it is expected to fill or if it is just decoration, but it hangs a that point anyway

GreatLord
Developer
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:26 am
Location: Sweden

Post by GreatLord »

Hi
We are aware about ReactOS does not working on some amd cpu and we already known why. and work inprogress to solv it. ReactOS have allot of bugs and we are hunting down bug after bug. Last year it was maybe over 10 000 varius bugs fixed in varius place. and this year allot more. after we fixed so many bugs we found allot hidden bugs as well. we are working on get rid most of them.

preless of 0.3.1 is known not working with
cpu : Amd XP, Amd 64.
some cpu without sse maybe not working
vmware workstations with amd64/amdxp cpu

vbe driver does not working with card that need bankswitch
for we whant a true framebuffer. real vbe 2.0 or higher

what is the cause of this
1. start fixing fpu working again we need the context switch be
safe for cpu without sse (will not be in 0.3.1, but later in trunk)
I got a local patch for this problem and agreed with alex not
commit it. for a good reason.

2. AmdXP/Amd64 is thanks to a user mode crash handling is not inplement
unknown fix at moment but workinprogress to fix it.

3. vbe driver use vga driver instead, if no pic comes up.


There is all known hw releated problem I known about at moment
for reason why reactos does not work. for some machine

To say this project is joke is very stupied, we all that working on reactos are belivining in it and put ur soul to it. All devloper love ReactOS in there hart and that reason this project is going on. And to write a clone of another os is not easy. I will say it is allot easy write own os. and do own desgin in everthing. then u do not need follow any real spec. We are follow ms spec how api works. and how to loading drv and so on.
we are aim be ms windows nt compatible.

PeterK
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:24 am

Re: sorry to say that, but: ReactOS is a joke

Post by PeterK »

chrisv5 wrote:All I ever get to is the ReactOS logo. I do not know if the progress bar below it is expected to fill or if it is just decoration, but it hangs a that point anyway
Not ONE release of LiveCD - since 0.3.0 - does work on any of my computers.
LiveCD was broken for a long time and still is not OK.
Making LiveCD run is not the main target of the developers.

The only way that really makes sense to test ReactOS is BootCD (on real hardware or on any PC emulator, but I don't like that ..).
I recommend BootCD SVN 25750 or Prerelease 0.3.1.

I have chosen the DELL to be testing machine for ReactOS with BootCD.
Yes, for that I spend money with blocking this PC.
ReactOS 0.3.x is not stable and not for daily use.

Please try BootCD:
Please STOP at first screen "Welcome to ReactOS Setup"
No worry: Up to that there's nothing written to Your HDs.

If "Welcome to ReactOS Setup" does not appear (BootCD!) You have the same problem as I have on several PCs:
http://www.reactos.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1972

But if You reach "Welcome to ReactOS Setup" You have a real chance to get a working installation.

Thanks, Peter.

chrisv5
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:46 am

Post by chrisv5 »

GreatLord wrote:preless of 0.3.1 is known not working with
cpu : Amd XP, Amd 64
I said AMD K2, AMD Athlon (the original one), AMD Duron. None of those you mentioned (yes, I read the posts for months already). Mind you, it does not work on any Intel CPU, either.

It seems all graphics cards are not VESA compliant, according to you. Odd enough, my DOS games think differently. And I have TONS of DOS games.

Let's face it, ReactOS is your personal hobby and you had the guts to ask the public for funding your hobby, while posting an overly optimistic road map.

Edited for typos

Ged
Developer
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: UK

Re: sorry to say that, but: ReactOS is a joke

Post by Ged »

chrisv5 wrote:A very upset donor!
The kernel is currently undergoing a massive rewrite at the moment, so it appears ReactOS regressing, not progressing, but this is not true.

Once the kernel rewrite nears completion, ReactOS should move forwards at a much greater pace. The end of 2007 will offer a very different product from what is currently on offer.

I agree that the 0.3.1 has been a bit of a farce. It was branched in the middle of the kernel rewrite from a very unstable trunk. This should hopefully be the last of the overly-long release periods, as trunk stability will improve and less work will be required for release branches, which will result in much more regular releases.

Please try to be patient. You contribution has not been wasted. I'm sure if you hang in there until the end of the year you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Ged.

chrisv5
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:46 am

Re: sorry to say that, but: ReactOS is a joke

Post by chrisv5 »

Ged wrote:Please try to be patient. You contribution has not been wasted. I'm sure if you hang in there until the end of the year you'll be pleasantly surprised. Ged.
I'll post again at the end of the year. I am very curious what will be my impression then.

PeterK
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:24 am

Post by PeterK »

chrisv5 wrote: (ReactOS ..) does not work on any Intel CPU, either.
My DELL has a Pentium 4 CPU and it DOES work with ReactOS.
chrisv5 wrote:It seems all graphics cards are not VESA compliant, according to you. Odd enough, my DOS games think differently. And I have TONS of DOS games.
Oh, a gamer.

Well, my DELL PC has a onboard INTEL graphic chip. It's fully enough for my applications.
Even under Windows XP the original Windows VESA driver DOES NOT WORK on my DELL.
Also under Windows XP I get only VGA (4 bit colors, 640x480) on my DELL.
Also under Windows XP I have to install the INTEL driver to get more than 640x480 and >4 bit colors.

Thanks, Peter.

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EmuandCo
Developer
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:52 pm
Location: Germany, Bavaria, Steinfeld
Contact:

Post by EmuandCo »

chrisv5:
So, you want to tell us your opinion? Interesting.... OK, then you have to live with critics: :evil:

Did you read the sentence at the main page? Did you read the stuff with alpha and this shit?!? Did you even think about what a fucking heavy task it is to code a whole Operating system? No, obviolsly not! How dare you to tell us this project is a joke, without knowing ANYTHING!? Shame on you and your so called opinion!! Before you log into this board, just to swear about ReactOS, be aware, that this project is made from guys who like to code on this OS in their spare time. They do not get a single cent for doing this. If the development is too slow for you, help them! Read the SVN changelogs. There are ~10 - 20 commits per day, so don't tell us theres no progress! In the last days many bugs got fixed in Kernel and many other parts.

OK, this helped me very much, now I cooled down again. :twisted:

samwise52
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:14 pm

Post by samwise52 »

that guy is a troll. and the post is just flamebait.
wrong and poorly researched opinion(yes,opinions can be wrong, especially when uninformed). let's just ignore it
Can you picture what could be? So limitless and free.. in need of your help ReactOS 0.4

GreyGhost
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:16 pm

Post by GreyGhost »

Hello chrisv5, not trying to be rube or anything..
but how many different operating systems with a task as large as ReactOS have u been working/looking at ?
I have hanged around at the IRC for quite a long time and assure u that there are *very good* reasons why the promised 0.3.1 has not come out yet.
As u may have already read from the earlier posts the kernel is under a major rewrite and most of the times as many of the devs will tell u .. they try to fix Problem 1 ..and surface out problem 2 and the chain goes on ..

And there a few parts of an Operating System which only a few with enough knowledge in that part can fix..

Every heard of a broken SEH which half the dev team had been slogging to fix for the past few weeks? (if not then thats news to you ...) and many such small or big bugs have come along blocking 0.3.1 ..

Hopefully u understand that if 0.3.1 was delivered to u in December then half the community would have screamin out "NOTHING WORKS !!!! cant u guys make a workin release???"
Regards GreyGhost

ixrayi
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:43 am

Re: sorry to say that, but: ReactOS is a joke

Post by ixrayi »

Hello
At first , sorry for my bad english!

I have installed Reactos 0.3.0 and it runs good under real Hardware and under Virtual PC .

Under Real Hardware i have testet 2 PC's one runs very good with Reactos and the other have Problems with the Intel Grafic Card onboard.
I have disabled the onboard Grafic Card and build in a other and then it runs good too.

A Problem was the installation with old Harddisks and the MBR.
But now i have a good Tip.
I need Killdisk and then is the Installation no Problem.

I have found many Progs that run under Reactos.
I have many many Games that run under Reactos.

But at this Time i can't write it to the Database.

I think Reactos is a very good think.
I want to learn C to help and i now the Developers spent many Time for the Projekt .
Most User not think how much work is behind the Projekt.
I now because I write Programms with Visual Basic.

I say Thank's to the Developers and all other People they spent Time to the Projekt REACTOS.

Frank Heimlich - IXRAYI

chrisv5
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:46 am

Post by chrisv5 »

Lots of valid points... and they have been posted on this forum again and again, but...
GreyGhost wrote:hello chrisv5, not trying to be rube or anything..
but how many different operating systems with a task as large as ReactOS have u been working/looking at ?
since you asked... I used to repair CPUs when they were still built with NAND and NOR gates, shift registers and a four bit adder thrown in for good measure, before the invention of single chip CPUs (I worked for the company which sold Intel the design of their CPU).
I wrote a preemptive multi-tasking OS when a kernel was unheard of (simply cause RAM was tiny and expensive). That much to my background, not to brag (nothing to brag about age), but to explain that I know what I am talking about
GreyGhost wrote:As u may have already read from the earlier posts the kernel is under a major rewrite and most of the times as many of the devs will tell u .. they try to fix Problem 1 ..and surface out problem 2 and the chain goes on ..
Well, it was you guys who made those announcements, not me. Apparently you guys severely underestimate the efforts needed. Which raises the question if anyone knows what is going on?
GreyGhost wrote:Every heard of a broken SEH which half the dev team had been slogging to fix for the past few weeks? (if not then thats news to you ...) and many such small or big bugs have come along blocking 0.3.1 ..
Again, nobody seems to have a clue about the state of the affair. Do not ask me, if I have heard about it, ask them developers. They are the ones who are always so optimistic.
GreyGhost wrote:Hopefully u understand that if 0.3.1 was delivered to u in December then half the community would have screamin out "NOTHING WORKS !!!! cant u guys make a workin release???"
Well, refresh your memory, re-read the forums. People kept asking you on and on, "are you serious about that date, *we* doubt it" but the answer always was "but of course!" Tell me, who lost any sense of reality, the developers or the supporters?

If the project is in such an early state, why traveling around and holding speeches about something which still only exists in the dreams of a handful? Reminds me a bit on Microsoft and Longhorn... want to repeat history? Sorry, that has been done before

GreyGhost
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:16 pm

Post by GreyGhost »

Hello, ixrayi!!
Nice to hear that u loved ReactOS and are takin so much interest in the project (and we don't mind ur bad english as we know that we have people from various nationalities here..)

Yes i think the DB has been closed down for entries at the moment due to the unsteady nature of development and will be reactivated later on when ReactOS becomes a bit more stable...

Nice to hear that u want to help out in the project .. U may want to read the wiki found here.. http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Feel free to ask doubts at the forums here or pop in at the IRC channel if u ever have any problems or want to have a quick dev talk most prolly someone will be online and able to help you..
the IRC info
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/ReactOS_Chat
Regards GreyGhost

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