Windows CE?

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Linuxgamer94
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Windows CE?

Post by Linuxgamer94 »

Um, yeh I was just woundering if React OS suports programs made for Windows CE yet or if that is not a prioity?
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EmuandCo
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by EmuandCo »

Not that I know of. Anyone have some x86 CE apps lying around? ARM ones dont work for sure.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by tomleem »

I think Microsoft should have developed Windows CE so it could be used on netbooks and older computer devices since - IIRC - it uses less resources than their full operating system.
http://www.windowsce.com/ Latest news seems to be in 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_CE
[ external image ]
'Windows CE is optimized for devices that have minimal storage; a Windows CE kernel may run in under a megabyte of memory.'
I would rather have seen this on my older netbook than Windows 7. :ugeek:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms905511.aspx
I think it is not often that one sees 'open' and 'Windows' used together. 8-)
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EmuandCo
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by EmuandCo »

WIndows CE is no open operating system. Its embedded and far from the usability state of a modern NT style OS
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes
erkinalp
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by erkinalp »

Parts of the kernel source code of version 7 have been shared.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Embedded_Compact_7
-uses Ubuntu+GNOME 3 GNU/Linux
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EmuandCo
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by EmuandCo »

I did not mean open in that way. It's a locked real time OS. Its not meant to be dynamically extended with other software and drivers.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes
BlackRabbit
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by BlackRabbit »

EdmondCo wrote:It's a locked real time OS. Its not meant to be dynamically extended with other software and drivers
Not sure what you mean by that.

Windows CE very much allows a third-party OEM to create a device driver for it. In fact, given that it is an embedded OS, adding new drivers without Microsoft's participation is quite common. In some cases, third-party OEM's get the source code too. Also, in case anyone is wondering what would happen if you took a regular, Win32 API GUI program developed for, say, Windows XP, and recompiled it to run on a WinCE ARM device, the answer is that it would most-likely run with few, if any modifications. This is because there is a deliberate huge overlap between the Windows API and Windows CE API. If you have a version of Visual Studio 2005 or Visual Studio 2008, you can try this for your self. Write a small GUI program for the desktop, then recompile it for ARMv4 (or greater), and run it with the emulator that comes with Visual Studio. You will see almost the same thing on the Windows CE emulator that you would see on the desktop, in many cases.
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by tomleem »

BlackRabbit wrote:
EdmondCo wrote:It's a locked real time OS. Its not meant to be dynamically extended with other software and drivers
Not sure what you mean by that.

Windows CE very much allows a third-party OEM to create a device driver for it. In fact, given that it is an embedded OS, adding new drivers without Microsoft's participation is quite common. In some cases, third-party OEM's get the source code too. Also, in case anyone is wondering what would happen if you took a regular, Win32 API GUI program developed for, say, Windows XP, and recompiled it to run on a WinCE ARM device, the answer is that it would most-likely run with few, if any modifications. This is because there is a deliberate huge overlap between the Windows API and Windows CE API. If you have a version of Visual Studio 2005 or Visual Studio 2008, you can try this for your self. Write a small GUI program for the desktop, then recompile it for ARMv4 (or greater), and run it with the emulator that comes with Visual Studio. You will see almost the same thing on the Windows CE emulator that you would see on the desktop, in many cases.
Thanks. I think that is very informative. 8-)
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Linuxgamer94
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by Linuxgamer94 »

tomleem wrote:
BlackRabbit wrote:
EdmondCo wrote:It's a locked real time OS. Its not meant to be dynamically extended with other software and drivers
Not sure what you mean by that.

Windows CE very much allows a third-party OEM to create a device driver for it. In fact, given that it is an embedded OS, adding new drivers without Microsoft's participation is quite common. In some cases, third-party OEM's get the source code too. Also, in case anyone is wondering what would happen if you took a regular, Win32 API GUI program developed for, say, Windows XP, and recompiled it to run on a WinCE ARM device, the answer is that it would most-likely run with few, if any modifications. This is because there is a deliberate huge overlap between the Windows API and Windows CE API. If you have a version of Visual Studio 2005 or Visual Studio 2008, you can try this for your self. Write a small GUI program for the desktop, then recompile it for ARMv4 (or greater), and run it with the emulator that comes with Visual Studio. You will see almost the same thing on the Windows CE emulator that you would see on the desktop, in many cases.
Thanks. I think that is very informative. 8-)
I don't as it still does not answer the question. Can React OS run programs made for Windows CE? I have never seen a computer run it before, but I have seen it on some laptops in the phamacy section in the discount bin.
BlackRabbit
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by BlackRabbit »

Linuxgamer94 wrote:I don't as it still does not answer the question. Can React OS run programs made for Windows CE? I have never seen a computer run it before, but I have seen it on some laptops in the phamacy section in the discount bin.
The answer is: It depends. :geek:

Assuming both devices use x86_32 CPU's...
  1. If you take a compiled image off a computer running Windows CE, and put it on the hard disk of a computer running ReactOS, and try to use Explorer.exe (or whatever) in ReactOS, to try to launch the program off the hard disk of ReactOS, the answer is: "NO".
  2. If you take the source code of a Windows CE program, and compile it for Windows XP, without modifying the source code, and attempt to run the resulting executable on ReactOS, the answer is: "IN MANY CASES, YES".
  3. If you take a compile image off a computer running Windows CE, and are desperate to run it on ReactOS, and you do not have access to the source code, the answer is: "YES, WITH A BIT OF EFFORT".
EFFORT:
  1. As mentioned, the user-mode API of Windows CE is surprisingly similar to that of "Big Windows". In fact, almost all of the KERNEL32.DLL common functions (CreateFile, CreateProcess, etc.) are present. The only real difference is that, on Windows CE, the names of the DLL's are different.
  2. All versions of Windows use the Portable Executable file format for executable images.
The previous two facts, taken together, means that you could write a few shim DLL's that are the names that a WinCE program would expect to load at run time. These shim DLL's would forward all calls to KERNEL32.DLL, etc. When ReactOS loads the WinCE program, the WinCE shim DLL's would be loaded, which would then load KERNEL32.DLL, etc. You might have issues with the KnownDLLs issue, where a DLL must have its base address fixed, at which point you would have to do a bit more trickery.
Also, you will need to tweak the header of the WinCE PE images so that ReactOS does not reject them as being non-Windows XP compatible.

My gut instinct is that it is feasible.
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by tomleem »

I don't as it still does not answer the question. Can React OS run programs made for Windows CE? I have never seen a computer run it before, but I have seen it on some laptops in the phamacy section in the discount bin.
I have seen those. I believe they are 'cheap' in every sense of the word. It could be why they are in the discount bin. I checked them online and the reviews aren't usually good. :o
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Linuxgamer94
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by Linuxgamer94 »

So it could be done, but does Windows CE have any exclusive programs are would it just be a cool feature to say that React OS can run XP and CE programs? :x
middings
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by middings »

Linuxgamer94 wrote:...does Windows CE have any exclusive programs... ?
I am aware of no programs exclusive to Windows CE that are of interest.

As for my own (very old) WinCE devices, I plan to someday load NetBSD on them. I have no hope that there will ever be a port of ReactOS to their hardware (MIPS). Someday I will want to try ReactOS on a portable machine. For that, I will buy a used laptop. Jonaspm has been experimenting with a Dell D600 and he is making progress.
Linuxgamer94 wrote:...would it just be a cool feature to say that React OS can run XP and CE programs? :x
Microsoft supplied an emulator with older WinCE SDKs that ran on XP. I never heard it described as cool.
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EmuandCo
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by EmuandCo »

Windows CE is of no relevance anymore. And never was for the usage we plan for ROS. Additionally its no Windows NT or 9x system at all. It would be a BIG amount of work to get this done and it's not worth it. Especially the fact that CE mostly was used on anything but x86 hardware is a big task.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes
middings
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Re: Windows CE?

Post by middings »

EmuandCo wrote:Windows CE is of no relevance anymore. ...and it's not worth it.
I agree.
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