[ros-dev] Undocumented APIs

James Tabor jimtabor at adsl-64-217-116-74.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net
Tue Jan 31 20:45:14 CET 2006

Alex Ionescu wrote:
> Steven Edwards wrote:
>> On 1/31/06, Alex Ionescu <ionucu at videotron.ca> wrote:
>>> Well you're contradicting yourself..."When there is documentation
>>> describing the way Windows does something then we should follow it" then
>>> you say "If an API is not used by application then we should not
>>> implement it because it does not help the goal of the project".
>>> SMSS/CSRSS are documented and described in general...however not
>>> implementing them at all does not change the fact that Office and MSN
>>> Messenger will run. No application/driver depends on them...
>>> You guys better decide, you seem kind of confused...are you going to
>>> create a working model of NT based on architectural information (and
>>> that includes, OSR, PDBs, MSDN, DDKs, NTDEV/NTIFS Mailing Lists, Windows
>>> Internals, Probert, etc) or are you going to create some half-assed OS
>>> that runs every app the users want?
>> It either must 1. Be documented or 2. Have a third party application
>> that depends on certain functionality. If MSDN, OSR, NTDEV Windows
>> Internels and Probert document it then sure we can implement it.
> You are still not being clear. Those sources document generic 
> architecture, not direct APIs. If you implement it, then you need to 
> implement undocumented APIs/entire modules which nobody will use.
>> I no
>> longer view the PDBs as a valid clean room source.
> I guess Microsoft won then, without even having to contact us. Will the 
> DDK/IFS be considered dirty too, soon? You know, I've talked to some 
> driver developers out there and people involved in NT kernel 
> development, and they've been laughing out loud at this... good luck 
> ever trying to achieve more then 0.1% driver support with this mentality.
I think that is what pissed tamlin off on the IRC! We can't look at anything
now because it's based on sdk/ddk and some book like "Undocumented Win 2k
Secrets"! It might be tainted? The book has documented structures that Alex
put into ntoskrnl and now gone! We have to start from scratch? WTF!

You can not look but you can touch, you can not touch but you can look?

Man! Sweden here we come!

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